Show NotesCaller Question
If you were going to write a book, what would the title be?
Questions for Reflection
Each episode we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. You might pause the podcast and answer them right then and there, but if you keep a journal (Steph and Beth both do), you might find one of these PDFs useful. Choose the orientation that fits best in your journal.
Transcript
Beth: 00:03
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast. Steph: 00:06 Where we have honest conversations about things that make us different. I'm Steph. Beth: 00:09 And I'm Beth. Steph: 00:10 I've been in recovery for 13 plus years and I'm the author of Discovering My Scars, my memoir about my mental health struggles, experiences, and faith. Beth: 00:17 I'm a lawyer turned pastor who's all about self-awareness and emotional health, because I know what it's like to have neither of those things. Steph: 00:23 Beth and I have been friends for six years, have gone through recovery program together and when I wanted to start a podcast, she was the only name that came to mind as co-host. Beth: 00:31 I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot from honest conversations with Steph over the years. Steph: 00:37 We value honest conversations and we hope you do too. Beth: 00:39 That's why we do this! And why we want you to be part of what we are discussing today. What is our topic, Steph? Steph: 00:46 Today we are talking about how to make courage more than a concept. Beth: 00:50 Okay. I love this because I think that it was courageous of you to write your book. Do you think that was a courageous thing to do? Steph: 00:57 I never looked at it that way, but the only time I started looking at that way was when I read, I was reading my book and I read the foreword and I was like, "Whoa." Beth: 01:07 I wrote the foreword. That's so exciting. Steph: 01:10 The one part of my book that I did not write—you talked about that and I was like, "Oh, am I courageous? I don't know." I can't answer that. You can answer that better than I can I guess. But to me it felt like it just, the reason I wrote the book is because I felt like it had to come out of me and the best way to do that was in written form in my mind. And yeah, so it was like I had to. Beth: 01:33 But there are a lot of steps between, I have to write this down and all of the work that it takes to turn those written thoughts and those written words into a book, right? I mean, you didn't just write it and then, Oh, first draft, perfect. It's done. And now I'm going to have this published. Steph: 01:52 Yeah. I mean I'll give you a little secret into the book publishing world. Writing the book is the easy part. I'm really glad I didn't know that when I was writing the book because it felt like the hard part, it really did. It was a lot of work. When I started writing it though. I always knew I wanted to get it out in a public way and so that's why I put so much work into writing it because I just felt like I've shared this story with people in my life, trusted people, friends, family, things like that. But I felt like the story could have an impact in a greater community, people that I don't know, people that might need to read the story. And so I wrote the book knowing I wanted to share it with the public. I didn't know how it was going to happen and didn't know if it would get to that point. My first step was writing it and once I wrote it, I pursued the publishing of it, and that was hard. And that was like, it was not a comfortable spot for me to be in. It definitely did take courage to send. That first email of sending my manuscript to my publishing company, it just like, this is me. I just took my heart out, put in an email and said, "Here, this is all of me, the everything of me." And so that was hard. And I've been learning through the whole book process that every step takes freaking courage. Every step, there's a step that I'm like, "Oh, that's hard. Oh, I don't, I don't think, I don't know if I want to do this step." Beth: 03:19 Well, and that's where courage comes in is doing that next hard thing. Steph: 03:23 Actually doing it. Yeah. Beth: 03:24 Yeah. Actually doing it. So if we're talking about how to make courage more than a concept, one of the things that I hear you saying is that it almost helped to not know at the beginning everything that you were getting into because it allowed you to focus on just what had to be done in that moment, right? Steph: 03:41 Yeah. For me it helped to not have everything planned out; just to have the first step planned out. And actually I just saw the, you know the movie Frozen Two? Beth: 03:53 Yeah. Steph: 03:54 It came out recently. I've seen it three times. Great movie. Totally recommend it. It's the best thing in the world. Beth: 04:00 Wow. The best thing in the world? Wow! Steph: 04:02 Well, in the Disney animated world, we'll say that. But one of the things that I really took from it was there's a time, no spoilers, but there's a time when some bad stuff happens and Anna has to do the next right thing. And there's a song called "The Next Right Thing" and it's very, she has a ton of courage in just taking those next steps. She could just sit where she is and just fall apart. And just not move forward. But she even through her pain in her sadness and her struggle, she takes that next step and takes that next step and she gets to where she needs to go and everyone's saved and alive and happy in the end. Beth: 04:39 Great. Steph: 04:40 This is a Disney movie. Beth: 04:41 I was like, that's an amazing story of a fictional character having courage because I think maybe it's a little bit easier to write a courageous story. Steph: 04:49 But I think it's courageous for the, as much as, I mean it's Disney, obviously, it's Disney and it's a cartoon, but I really applaud the filmmakers for putting a scene like that in that movie because it is a good visual. Have you seen the movie? Beth: 05:06 No, I haven't seen it yet. Steph: 05:07 Okay. You don't know the brilliance yet then. It's a great visual. Kids need to see this. Adults need to see this. It's actually seeing what, when you're at this super low place and where it all seems lost, how to take each of those steps. It's a character actually doing that and obviously you know it's going to be happy and fine in the end. Steph: 05:26 But I thought that was important. Seeing that they didn't have to put in kids would have seen the movie otherwise. And kids probably, it's a hard scene for them. I think that's a good visual of what it takes to be courageous. Courage doesn't mean you're standing there with your armor and your sword and you're going to battle with so much energy and excitement, courage can be I'm super low and I'm not sure about what's next, but I'm just going to take that next step and take that next step. Even though I'm not a 100% confident in it, I know this is where I need to go and I'm just going to take this step. Steph: 06:00 So moving forward, even in the face of an obstacle or even in the face of fear, which can be an obstacle or moving forward in spite of ... moving forward even when you're not in the right mental space and even though you don't have all the answers and you're not super confident, you could still be courageous and move. I was never 100% confident that ... and I am still not confident that every, I don't think everyone's going to love my book. I am confident on that. Not everybody's going to be receptive or love it, but that doesn't stop me from moving forward and releasing it and putting it all out there. Beth: 06:39 Yeah, so you wrote the manuscript that was something that you had to do. And then instead of thinking, okay, well I'm going to get this published and some people won't like it. That wasn't the next step. The next step was I'm going to send it to the publisher. And then the publisher said, "Great, now you need to edit it." It was not one round of edits. You don't get from manuscript to finished book in one round, right? Steph: 07:01 After it was accepted for publishing. Then I did a complete new rewrite of it because the structure was really bad and so I completely restructured it and then I had a line edit done and then I had to go through everything the line editor did to kind of review it all. And then I had a proofreader and had to go through that again. And yeah, so I was in that book a lot. There were a lot of steps. Beth: 07:28 Yeah, step-by-step. Steph: 07:30 And so I just took that next step, not the ... when I was in the middle of the line edit, I wasn't working on the cover because that was step 20 and I was on step five. So I stayed at each step because trying to move too fast meant I would not finish the early steps. I would've just gotten too caught up and discouraged and not been able to move forward. Beth: 07:56 What do you think it was that propelled you from step to step? Like what was the source of your courage? What was your why? Right. In order to really dig deep enough to take the next step, we have to know our why, don't we? Steph: 08:11 Yeah, I agree. Definitely the why was very important and that was what kept me going and for me the why wasn't necessarily one beautifully written line on a sheet of paper on my dream board. It was more of a feeling. I felt like this story needed to be in the world and I felt like there was teaching moments and there was healing moments, and there were parts of my story that I don't know how they could potentially help someone else, but that they had the potential to do so. And it helped me as much as it could help other people by me getting these words out. But in this type of way, it was even another healing element for me as well. So for me, the why was more of a feeling, this story needs to be part of the public world. It needs to be part of the conversation of mental health and not the shadows of it. Steph: 09:05 That's kind of my ongoing why of continuing to promote and push the book. It's not because I want to sell books because there's really no money in books. Spoiler alert. My why is I want this story to get out to the people that need to read it and the only way to do that is to talk about it and is to get into the hands of people that need to read it or know the people that need to read it. And so that's why I continue to push for it because I want mental health to get out of the shadows and to be part of the normal conversation. Beth: 09:38 I mean, I would think that with every single edit of the book you relived the trauma that you were describing. That takes courage. To continue to do those edits and to take the next steps. That does take courage even if you don't want to, even if you don't see it as courageous. I can tell you as someone on the outside looking in that that is courageous. Steph: 10:00 Yeah. I mean I'm not going to deny, Beth, I'm not going to deny. Yeah, I can see where there seems like courage. And it was, I think as much as it was courage there was also self-awareness. A lot of self-awareness when I read the book, especially every section there's something that's a little bit challenging. There's maybe like one section that's like there was nothing challenging here, but everything there's something that's challenging to read. And even when I read the audio book, I had to read everything over again. So being self-aware of knowing myself and knowing when to take breaks and knowing when to, like if I'm getting frustrated, when I was reading the book, if I was getting caught up in my words, okay, take a break. Steph: 10:41 And I wouldn't work past a certain time. I knew my working hours and I knew my limits. So that was part of, I guess how I was able to have courage was to also know myself and know I don't do well if I'm not fed three times a day and if I don't have enough water. So those things is knowing those things about myself really helped. Beth: 11:03 The care and feeding of Stephanie Kostopoulos. So I think I've heard a lot of people say, I mean, just sort of anecdotally, just socially, I think I've heard a lot of people say that they think they have a book in them. And another thing that I hear people say a lot is that they really wish they could work for themselves. Right? And so these are two things that you've done that a lot of people think they want to do or could do or should do, even though we try not to use that word on this podcast. Steph: 11:32 And yet, every episode we do. Beth: 11:34 Every episode I manage to work it in. You're welcome. So what about that? What about moving from, this is something that sounds like a good idea to me. Something that I want to do or something that I think I need to do to actually making it happen? Steph: 11:51 Well, as we've talked about in our Should Episode, we'll put a link to that in the show notes if you're like, why don't they keep talking about this Should Thing? Yeah, I hear a lot of people will, when I tell them what I do and I have my own business and I make online content, I have a lot of people saying, "Oh yeah I should do that. I mean I go to X, Y, Z a lot. I could just take video of that. I should do that." Steph: 12:12 Yeah. I think everybody has the opportunity to do that. And if you want to, go for it, but that's my big thing is if you think you should, it's not sustainable. Do you want to? Do you want to share the projects you're working on? Do you want to share the trips you go on? Do you want to do those things? That's the biggest thing that you have to figure out, because it's a ton of work. Working for yourself, it sounds great and it is great. I mean, I'm not going to deny it. But it's a lot of work. Everything starts and ends with you. And it's not for people that want an easy, I'll be from at home, so I can get so much stuff done. Steph: 12:50 Well, no. You're going to, it's not what you think. Beth: 12:55 Yeah, one of the things that I have found in the periods of my life when I would have described myself as self-employed is that then you just don't have a boss to blame, right? And you don't have a business to blame. And you don't have office issues to blame. It's like, I didn't get anything done today because I'm completely distracted and unable to focus on what I need to do. Steph: 13:13 Yeah. I mean, and being self-employed really makes you examine self. There's a lot of self that you have to figure out and that because there is no one to blame and if you kind of observe, take a day and just observe how many times you blame something on someone else, and it easily could be someone else or some other whatever. I was late to work because of the traffic. Okay, well is that really what happened or did you leave late? Beth: 13:37 Yeah. Steph: 13:38 I don't know, observe how many times we put it on something. And when you work for yourself it's, you can still sometimes put it on people like, "My kid was sick so they stayed home, whatever." But you have to really, it all ends with you. So if you slept in an extra hour, you got less than an hour of stuff done. And like for me, if I did that, there's some mornings I wake up, I'm just like, I want to watch TV. You know what, that's okay. I'll allow myself to watch TV. I will still get everything I need to get done, but I can kind of move around where that is. So I try not to be too rigid but also know that—well I make a schedule and that's my biggest thing. Steph: 14:17 Schedule is key in my life is knowing like what I need to get done today. So at the end of the day I can check them all off and be like, "I feel good. I feel accomplished. This was a good day." Even if I didn't finish everything to like 9:00 PM, because I was taking some breaks in the day. That's how I can kind of judge this was a good day. Beth: 14:35 Yeah. It's not that some, it's not that you have a boss or another team at work that's waiting for this work to get done. So you know that you have to get it done by a deadline. You have to have self-imposed deadlines, which gets us back to, I think you got to know your why. Why is it important that I create these deadlines and follow these deadlines. And why do I want to work for myself? Why do I want to be my own boss? I think knowing your why is really ... is one of the key steps in making courage more than a concept. Steph: 15:05 Well I'm curious, Beth, you have made a lot of different career moves in your life and right now you are currently almost done with pastor school, right? Is that what it's called, pastor school? Beth: 15:19 No, it's called seminary. Steph: 15:20 Seminary. Okay. Beth: 15:21 And I have just three classes left, just one semester, and then I'll have my Master of Divinity. Steph: 15:27 Wow. So my question for you is what's your why? Why are you spending so many hours in Pastor school? I mean, seminary. And what's your why? Beth: 15:37 My why goes back several years because this is a long process to get started in this. You'd have to think back to your why about why you first started writing this, writing your story down when you did, right? You have to kind of trace back to understand the genesis of the idea and the genesis of the longing or the genesis of the idea of what you want to do. Beth: 15:59 So I was in a place as a mom where I felt like I could go back to work. I had put a pin in my legal career and my kids were older and so it was like, okay, I have time where I can think about myself again. What do I want to do? And I was in a really spiritually rich season and so I started asking instead, "okay God, what do you want me to do?" My husband and I had gotten used to just being a one income family at that point. And so I didn't have to do something to earn an income. And amazing as that is, it's an incredible opportunity. I know that it's not an opportunity that everybody gets. I don't take it for granted, but it is also the kind of opportunity that can be sort of paralyzing because it's like I could do anything. What do I do? So when I started to ask not what do I want to do, but what does God want me to do, it really felt like that I should be serving others in a different way, not in terms of a legal career. So my why always goes back to that. Beth: 16:51 I realized that I not only have some gifts that enabled me to kind of help people, but I also have the freedom to do that. So how do I really integrate that opportunity and the way that I understand I am created and who God has gifted me to be? How do I integrate those two ideas into one thing? And that became, at first, it was blogging and teaching and then that kind of became specifically Bible teaching, but then that really requires some more education. And so it all kind of has built on itself. Beth: 17:22 But the ongoing why is: to not live just for myself. Steph: 17:27 So what I heard was God told you to. That's why you're a pastor. God made you, is that true? Is that what you said? Beth: 17:35 I mean, I think that that is true. And I know that that sounds crazy. And I, not all that long ago, had someone tell me like, "God doesn't talk to people." And I'm like, "God doesn't talk to you. And that's okay." Steph: 17:52 He doesn't talk to you. Beth: 17:52 You're not hearing that. And that's okay. It doesn't mean that I don't. Steph: 17:54 That was one of the hardest things for me was when, in my book I talk about the first time I actually talked to God. And that was one of the toughest things for me to write about because it's so personal. And so, if you have never experienced talking to God, people think you're crazy. And I had struggled for so long thinking I was crazy. Crazy in the mental, the term people use for people with mental illness, which I don't like. But that's, I struggled with, I'm crazy. I deal with self-injury, I am depressed, I'm crazy. And I was in a mental hospital. And they put me there because I was crazy. So when I talked to God for the first time I thought, "Oh no, are people going to think I really hear voices in my head and I call them God?" Beth: 18:45 Right. Steph: 18:45 And so I really struggle with that, with in my book, putting it in the book, because the original draft did not have that in there. The original draft was just really me in the hospital and I was like, good, the story was actually originally called Nicole's Place, and that was my book. And then my publisher said, "I feel like the story is not done." Steph: 19:04 And I said, "Yeah, there's a book two." She's like, "Well, I think it's part of book one." So that's when I wrote the stuff that was even scarier to write because it was so personal and so true. And when I talk to God, it's something that I can't even really put into words. I try my hardest putting it in the book. And if you think I'm crazy, I finally come to the place where I'm okay with that. If you think I am, that's okay. You're allowed to have your opinion. But I put my truth in this book. Beth: 19:32 I think that people get sensitive about that phrase, "my truth," because I think they hear us saying that truth is flexible. And I just want to be really clear that that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is, I'm not going to argue with you about what I know to be true. I know that God told me that I should go to seminary. That is the truth. I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not you believe that's the truth. So when I say, "My truth," that's what I would mean. Steph: 20:01 Yeah. I know that people struggle with the term, my truth. I've never really struggled with it. To me, it means, and it's all over my book. So if you struggle with it just block those parts out, I guess. But for me it was, for most of my life, I didn't know fully what had happened in my life. There was parts of my brain that shut down and had said, "No, this is too much for you to handle and I'm not going to have it in your conscious mind. When I talk about my truth, I am really saying it was something that I had to learn and discover and not make up. Steph: 20:37 It was always there. It was always true, but it was something that I had to want to learn and discover and understand and be willing to accept whatever the harsh reality of it was. And so that's how I use the term, my truth. But I know it can be used in a way of like, this is how I see the world. This is my truth. Even though it's obvious that it's something different. I don't know. I think that's how sometimes it's used. Beth: 21:02 What we were talking about is not alternative facts. That's not what we're saying when we're referring to "my truth." Steph: 21:07 It is fact in my life, this is truly has happened. There is no fiction in my nonfiction book. Beth: 21:15 Right. Steph: 21:15 It's my life, my story. Beth: 21:17 So to circle back to the idea of being self-employed and how that takes courage, I think that it takes courage not only to step out and to become your own boss and to build your own business, but I think that it takes ongoing courage because you have to do hard things like self-promotion and you have to do hard things like negotiating contracts and you have to do hard things like knowing your value or knowing your worth. Beth: 21:46 All of those things I think take courage. And so it's this, I guess, the point that I'm getting to is courage isn't just a one time thing. So how do you make courage more than a concept? I think you have to do it again and again and again and it's always by taking the next step. And knowing your why. I think those are two essentials. Steph: 22:04 Well, what I loved is as you were saying, each of those items, I, every time you said one of those items, I did an internal cringe and thought of an example in my life where I had to self promote and it was hard. And when I had to negotiate, it was hard. How I didn't know my worth and it was hard. Beth: 22:21 Right. Steph: 22:21 So I think, yeah, you're right. Courage is something that is not just one and done. I go slay the dragon and I'm good kind of thing. You can have courage still in the face of fear. I think there's, I still fear things and I still am afraid to, I'm not, I don't love contacting companies and telling them about me and working with them. But I do it because I believe in that company and I want to work with that company, and I feel like we have value to add to the conversation of that product or that thing. And so even though I'm fearful and it's not a comfortable place for me, I still move forward with that. And I guess that would be the courage that we're talking about and actually putting into action. Beth: 23:09 So you know the movie The Wizard of Oz? Steph: 23:12 Yes. Beth: 23:12 Which apparently it was a book before it was a movie. No, I'm kidding. Of course, it was a book before it was a movie. But everybody knows the movie version, right? So who was the character in the Wizard of Oz who needed courage? Steph: 23:22 The lion. Beth: 23:23 Yes, the Cowardly Lion. Steph: 23:25 Yes. The Cowardly Lion. It was in his name. Beth: 23:26 We never call him the Courageous Lion, right? Steph: 23:28 Yeah. Beth: 23:29 He's always the Cowardly Lion. And all through the movie he does these things that are brave, but he never sees himself as brave until the wizard gives him the stuff to drink, right? The liquid courage, I guess. Steph: 23:44 I don't remember how that ends. I just remember him being very scared of everything. Beth: 23:48 Yeah. But even when he's scared, he still is doing things that display courage and that prove him to be brave, but he doesn't see it in himself, right? And then there's like once that switch flips and he can see it in himself than he is transformed. Steph: 24:08 Interesting. Yeah. Beth: 24:09 So maybe part of making courage more than a concept gets back to that self-awareness of knowing that you are courageous or knowing that being courageous doesn't mean you're not afraid. If you weren't afraid, you wouldn't need courage. So I wonder if there's a healthy tool that we can access, kind of like what the Cowardly Lion receives from the wizard. Is there something that we can, is there a tool that we can access that will help us transform how we see ourselves? Steph: 24:39 Besides alcohol? Beth: 24:40 Of course. Steph: 24:42 Okay. I was just clarifying because now that you were saying the liquid courage thing, I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's what people use alcohol for a lot of times." Beth: 24:49 Here, hold my beer. No, we don't mean that. Steph: 24:52 So, yeah. So you mean how do you get courage without being under the influence of anything? Beth: 24:58 Yeah, a healthy tool. Steph: 25:00 A healthy, healthy. Oh, yeah. Beth: 25:01 A healthy tool. Steph: 25:03 I see, Beth. Okay, yes. I'm following with you. I think part of actually taking action behind courage is self-awareness, is knowing yourself, knowing your limits, and spending time with you and knowing that you are worth spending time on. Being an introvert, that comes more natural to me because I like being alone, but I do have to spend time turning off the noise and just being with myself and talking with myself and figuring out, like I said in a past episode, that book that asked me 3,000 questions. I find that so interesting because it helps me think in different ways and it helps prompts me to kind of observe myself and my thinking. Beth: 25:47 So this might be a reflection of our introvert and extroverted characteristics, but my, the step that came to mind for me was, well you've got to tell somebody about it. Because you got to be accountable to someone other than yourself about these steps that you're going to take, right? If you had never told anyone that you felt like you had to write this book, it might've been easier to just not do it. Steph: 26:11 Yeah. Beth: 26:12 Right? Steph: 26:13 That's true. Yeah. Beth: 26:15 100%, I agree, self-awareness. But maybe just because I'm an extrovert that I'm like, but then also you've got to talk about it to somebody else. Steph: 26:20 I agree. No, accountability for sure is saying it out loud. I mean, there's so much power in just actually saying the words and having another human observe those words. I mean, that's a big part of therapy is just talking. So yeah, I think that's a big step in courage is saying those things to someone else and asking them to hold you accountable. Asking them what you, tell them what you need from them. Beth: 26:47 Yeah. When I was feeling like I was called to vocational ministry, called to be a pastor, I actually set up lunches with a few people and I said, "This is what I think I'm hearing from God and I'm wondering if you see any of those qualities in me." And that actually was a way for me to be accountable but also open to direction or correction, if I needed it. And they were all encouraging and affirming and it was a great experience. Beth: 27:16 But it was hard to say it out loud because it was such a big pivot. But I think saying it out loud was important. Steph: 27:23 How do you know when you're being courageous? How do you know? Beth: 27:26 I think sometimes you know when you're doing something that's hard because sometimes you know this is the hard thing to do, but it's the right thing to do. When I left my law firm, someone said that to me. One of the male partners said, "Sometimes the thing that feels hardest to do is the right thing to do." And in my case, he also said, "Spending time with your kids is never going to be the wrong thing. And so since you can you, I understand why you want to." Beth: 27:56 But also I would say that I don't think you always know when you're being courageous and it might be one of those things that in hindsight it's like, I can't believe that I did that next step, right? Or somebody else might have to tell you. You know, Steph, it was really courageous to write a book. It was really brave to let all of us learn from this experience. It was really courageous to analyze your own self, to understand that you used self-injury as a way to try to reconnect your brain with what you were feeling. That does take courage to sit and analyze all of that. A lot of people would just self-medicate away or find a way to avoid thinking about those things. Beth: 28:35 So you might not always know that you're being courageous. Somebody else might have to point it out to you. Steph: 28:39 Do you think you're courageous for doing this podcast? Beth: 28:43 I think that we together are courageous for doing the podcast. I don't think either of us would do it without the other, and I do think that we get into some heavy subjects, and also it takes courage to put your thoughts and ideas and voice and words out there for them to be received however they're going to be received. Steph: 29:03 And to not have control over how they're going to be received. Beth: 29:06 Yes, I really like having control. Steph: 29:08 I know. Beth: 29:08 I would much prefer to have control over everything. Steph: 29:11 Yeah, I love control as well. And I feel like everything in my life, God keeps testing me on all these things. You never wanted to work with yourself, guess what? You're self-employed. You want to have, be able to control the whole narrative. Guess what? You can't. And I feel like those things test me more than anything. And every time we do a podcast, I love the concept and I am so happy we're doing them. But it's a lot. It's like I'm putting my heart into each of these podcasts. There's a piece of my truth, my true self in each of these episodes. And it's tough because I sometimes just wait like, "Oh no, what is someone going to say? What is someone going to say?" But I have to say, knock on my wood table. Oops, Mac thought someone was at the door. Sorry. No one's at the door. I don't think I've had anyone say anything negative to my face or comment. It will happen. I know it will, but people have just, if they don't like it, they haven't told me. Beth: 30:10 Well, if that happens, just shield me from it because there's no way I can take it. Steph: 30:13 Okay. I won't tell you if someone says how much they don't like it. Beth: 30:18 You know, Steph, I think what you just hit on is why it's hard for people to have honest conversations. I mean, that's the whole idea behind this, right? Is that we are having an honest conversation about things that if we weren't intentional about it, we might not talk about, and we're hoping that this is encouraging other people to have honest conversations. But maybe that takes courage because it requires vulnerability and it risks rejection. Beth: 30:45 So you have to be courageous. And how do you make courage more than a concept? Well, you've got to know, here's what I have heard us say in the course of our conversation today, that you've got to know why. Why you're going to take the next step. You have to know what the next step is. Not 10 steps from now, but just right now, what can I do, what do I need to do right now to get one step closer? And you need self-awareness. Steph: 31:13 And being vulnerable, I think is a big part of it as well. And allowing, being okay with that. Beth: 31:18 Yes. I think that is essential to having honest conversations. And to being courageous. Beth: 31:26 So Stephanie, your book is officially out now and if folks want to- Steph: 31:32 ... it's in bookstores, so you can find it in bookstores. I don't know what section of the bookstore it would be in. Maybe like self-help or self-something. Beth: 31:40 But you can just ask the people working in the bookstore for Stephanie Kostopoulos' book. And we're going to put a link to it. Steph: 31:47 I think it would be in the self-help section, because that's what's on the book thing, the bottom label. Beth: 31:51 The book thing, which would be the back of the book. Steph: 31:53 That back of the book. Beth: 31:53 The bottom left of the book. Steph: 31:55 I think self-help, personal growth. It will be in one of those sections. Beth: 31:58 And the book is called Discovering My Scars: Learning to Take A Giant Leap Forward While Taking Two Steps Back. Steph: 32:04 And my foot's on the front cover. Beth: 32:06 And the cover is Stephanie taking a step forward. Steph: 32:11 Yes. Beth: 32:11 And you can see her tattoo on there. Steph: 32:14 It's real. Beth: 32:15 Which is a cross that is scarred. Steph: 32:18 Yeah, it's a skin rip tattoo or ripped skin tattoo. I always reverse those, because I'm dyslexic. But yeah, so it kind of looks like it's under my skin, which is a tattoo I always wanted. And I finally got in 2012. And I love my tattoo so much. So I was so excited when my photographer had the idea to use that in the picture. Beth: 32:38 So I would definitely encourage you to pick up a copy of Steph's book, Discovering My Scars. I learned a lot from reading it. I mean, I say it in the intro to the podcast, but it's really true that I just learn again and again. I learn things from Stephanie's own self-awareness and from her courage to dive into understanding herself and understanding her own story and finding her truth. So I would definitely encourage you to pick up that book and we'll put some links to it in the show notes. Beth: 33:10 We do like to try to have a caller question in every episode and we've gotten some phone calls back recently from some of those questions. A while back, we asked for you to tell us if you were a PC person or a Mac person, and of course, we like all kinds of people, whether you're a PC person or a Mac person. Steph: 33:30 Or a typewriter person. Beth: 33:32 But Stephanie-- Steph: 33:33 ... but you're probably not listening to the podcast if you're a typewriter person. Beth: 33:36 Probably not. Although, typewriters are cool. Steph: 33:39 They're back. I know. I really want one, but I have no use for one. Beth: 33:43 Yeah. Stephanie is such a Mac person that her dog is named Mac, which you might've picked up on if you've listened to some episodes. So she's definitely a Mac person. I'm more of a PC person, but like a PC person with an iPhone and an iPad. So, what does the voicemail say? Laurel: 33:59 Hi, guys. This is Laurel. I'm actually an old friend of Stephanie's mom. I used to live in Tallahassee but now I'm living in Athens, Georgia. I hope the audio is okay because I'm currently sitting in my car trying to get it unfrozen to go to work. Steph: 34:11 Oh, no. Laurel: 34:12 But anyways, regarding the question you guys had about Mac versus PC, I just wanted to share a quote that a friend of mine did. He worked IT, and so he had to work with both. And he said, "I like PC because of freedom and I like Mac because of stability." I think definitely there's this whole thing where there's a lot more control on a PC. You can set it up exactly how you want it. Whereas on a Mac, everything's more running in the background and you kind of have to know what you're doing. Personally, right now I'm a Mac person, except for the fact that there's programs I cannot run on a Mac. Beth: 34:44 Except. Except. Laurel: 34:44 So I have to keep a PC around me. So that's kind of my response to the question. Have a great day, bye. Beth: 34:50 I wonder if she's going to school in Athens. Isn't there a big school in Athens, Georgia? Steph: 34:55 I don't know. Beth: 34:55 Yeah. Steph: 34:56 I don't know if she's still in school. I'll have to look it up. Beth: 34:57 Well, if you're a college student, good luck and thanks for calling in. We really appreciate it. Steph: 35:01 And I hope your car is not still frozen. Beth: 35:04 Oh my goodness. That would be such a bummer. Steph: 35:06 I loved what she said though because that is so true. Like what she said about PC versus Mac. I felt like that was a really good, a really good example. Also though, I want to just let you know, Laurel, that you don't have to keep your PC around because you can install windows on a Mac, you can install it using Bootcamp or you can install with software like parallel software where you can virtually run your windows software while you're running your Mac. I'm just putting it out there. Beth: 35:32 Or you could just continue to use a PC and guess what you get when you have a PC. This is amazing, y'all. Steph: 35:37 Viruses. Beth: 35:37 Mac people will not understand this, but you have a control key, a control key on the PC. Steph: 35:45 We have a control key. It's the command key. Beth: 35:47 And you can just, like when you're word processing, control C to copy things. Steph: 35:52 Command C on a Mac. Are you kidding me? Do you not know that? Beth: 35:54 The command button [crosstalk 00:35:56]. Steph: 35:57 Command C, copy. Command V, paste. Command X, cut. Command Z, undue. Command A, select all. Beth: 36:06 Are you done? The command key is in the wrong place. The command key is two keys too far to the right to be useful. Steph: 36:16 And you are two keys too ... Beth: 36:18 That is my feedback for all of you Mac people. Steph: 36:23 Man, I can't believe this discussion is still going on. I don't know why Beth's still trying to convince everybody. Wow, that was the lamest argument I have heard. A key placement? Beth: 36:33 Excuse me. This is my truth. That's it. Steph: 36:35 Okay, now you've used it in the wrong way. Now you've just ruined the whole episode. We just had this whole great discussion. Beth was giving you a great example of how my truth has gotten watered down and that's not how we were using it earlier in the episode. Thank you Beth for a great example. What is our question today, Beth? Beth: 36:53 So today's caller question is: If you were going to write a book, what would the title be? Steph: 36:59 Well that's a good one. Beth: 37:00 Thank you. Steph: 37:01 My mom needs to call in because she always has the best titles for things. Mom, if you're listening to this episode and if you're not, why aren't you? I was required, I would like you to call in because she just had three really good titles yesterday. Beth: 37:14 And what's the number that they would call in? Steph: 37:16 Yes. Beth: 37:16 You can call or text, actually. Steph: 37:18 You can call or text our number and that is 850-270-3308 and it is a Google Voice number so we don't answer but we will get it when you leave a message. Steph: 37:33 At the end of each episode, we like to end with Questions for Reflection. These are questions related to today's show. And Beth will pause between each one for you to pause the podcast if you want to answer them in your car to yourself or you can print out a PDF copy on our website. Beth: 37:48 Number one, what is something you've always wanted to do but not yet accomplished? What's stopping you? Number two, have you ever thought about writing your life story? What might you gain from writing your story and what might others gain from reading your story? Number three, what is one area of your life where you think you could use more courage? Steph: 38:12 This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcasts. Thank you for joining us. Quotable
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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