Show Notes
Questions for Reflection
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TranscriptBeth Demme (00:03): Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars Podcast. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:06): Where we have honest conversations about things that make us different. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:08): I'm Steph. Beth Demme (00:09): And I'm Beth. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:10): I've been in recovery for 14 years and am the author of Discovering My Scars, my memoir about my mental health struggles, experiences, and faith. Beth Demme (00:17): I'm a lawyer, turned pastor. Who's all about self-awareness and emotional health, because I know what it's like to have neither of those things. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:24): Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone through a recovery program together. And when I wanted to start a podcast, she was the only name that came to mind as co-host. Beth Demme (00:31): I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot from honest conversations with Steph over the years. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:36): We value honest conversations and we hope you do too. Beth Demme (00:39): That's why we do this and why we want you to be part of what we're discussing today. On today's show, we're going to have an honest conversation titled, Can I Be Thankful For My Scars? Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:49): Then we'll share a slice of life and the show will close with questions for reflection, where we invite you to reflect on the conversation in your own life. Beth Demme (00:57): So, Steph, what do we mean when we talk about scars? Can I be thankful for my “scars”? What do we mean? Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:04): Well, I think that you can look at it in different ways. I think an actual scar, a visible scar... I have some visible scars on my arm from non-suicidal self-injury. I have a scar on my knee from when I was a kid and I fell over the concrete slabs in the driveway. So those obvious scars, those visible scars. But I think also we're talking about kind of the internal scars, the scars of our life experiences of maybe some trauma we've gone through, or some experiences that are pretty unique to us, that others haven't gone through, that we might be hesitant to share because they're things that aren't normally kind of talked about. I think those are the scars also that we're talking about. Beth Demme (01:49): Yeah. I think physical and emotional scars. I'm remembering that in one of our very early episodes, I talked about my experience with ovarian cancer and it was fairly fresh when we talked about it. And so I remember you asking me something about the scars that I have on my abdomen from the surgeries. And you're like, "Well, how do you feel about the scars?" And I remember thinking, "Gosh, I don't feel good about those scars at all." And how that really signaled me that I have some emotional work there that I need to do. So even though it was a physical scar, there was a connected emotional work that needed to happen. Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:24): Beth, I think that was actually our third episode. Beth Demme (02:27): I was going to guess that. I was thinking it was episode three. Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:30): Yeah. So that was over a year ago. Beth Demme (02:33): Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:33): So then now that you put it out there, I want to ask you again, Beth, "How do you feel about those scars?" Beth Demme (02:39): I don't even think about them. It's just part of my story. Beth Demme (02:44): I met with a woman recently, it was a very brief meeting, but she has recently been diagnosed with breast cancer. Young woman, no family history, no underlying health issues and was really surprised by this diagnosis, but she has a great prognosis. Right? They're very optimistic about it in terms of they've caught it early, there are some treatments available, those kinds of things. Beth Demme (03:08): And I said, "You know what? What it'll be is that maybe one day this will just be part of your story. It'll just be part of who you are." Beth Demme (03:15): Sometimes, I think, when people get a diagnosis like that, it's like, "This is the end of my story." But it doesn't have to be, it can be just another chapter. And it's the difference between a scar and an open wound. Right? A scar means that we've had some healing, we've experienced some healing. And so I can be thankful for the healing that has happened that makes it a scar and not an open wound. Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:37): I think, in your case specifically, with the cancer, you had the emotional scar of finding out I have cancer and then finding out I beat the cancer, and then finding out, did I beat the cancer? You have that kind of scar. And then you have the physical one that you just talked about. So to go straight to our topic, "Are you thankful for those scars and what does that look like? Beth Demme (04:00): Well, I'm thankful for the scars in the sense that it means it's over. Right? That particular episode is finished and it has healed. So I'm thankful for that. Given the option, I probably still would have chosen not to go through it, but I'm thankful that it's over. Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:17): Well, and it's still fresh. I mean, that was... Was it two years ago? Beth Demme (04:19): Yeah, it's two years ago. Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:20): Two years ago. I mean, to me those are still fresh scars. Not open wounds, as you've kind of mentioned, but I think that is fresh scars. So, I know for me, I've had... And I talk about this in my book. I've had 14 years of experience with kind of dealing with my scars in various forms. And now I can look... But I don't know that two years... I can tell you for sure, two years to when I was dealing with them, I would not have said I'm thankful. I would not have said... Well, I wouldn't have talked about them. Beth Demme (04:52): Yeah. Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:53): I would just have been like, "What? What are you talking about? No, I'm good. And look, it's sunny outside. It's great. It's a great day." And now I can say I am thankful for them. And I know that's a strange kind of term. Those words don't go together, thankful and scars. Like, whoa, those are like imbalance, not in balance with each other. Beth Demme (05:10): We think of scars is something bad, right? For physical scars, there's even cream to try to get rid of your scars. Right? Because you don't want to have that imperfection be so obvious. Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:21): Well, and that's interesting because the scars on my left arm, I tried for probably a year or two to minimize them. And I tried... They make a makeup that's used to cover tattoos, and it was really expensive, you got to Dillard's. Is Dillard still a thing? Beth Demme (05:39): Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:39): Okay. You got it at Dillard's, and I went like... I never buy expensive stuff, but I was like... My mom was like, "Go get it. It will make you more comfortable." So I went and bought this special makeup and it really didn't fully cover it. And it wasn't fully like... And it was annoying because I could not get it to match, exactly, my skin, because it's my arm skin. It's not even face skin. It was just weird. And so I'd use it and it worked okay. And then I use little sweat bands to cover that area, which was kind of odd. Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:08): And I used to have these scar patches that were like made a silicone that were supposed to try to change the appearance of the scar to make them less scar-like I guess. Nothing worked, really. But I was very apprehensive about people seeing the scars in my workplace. I worked at Disney and I had to be in a... And we can put a link to the picture of this. It's actually in my book. I had to do this with my arms. I don't know how to describe that. How do I describe that? Beth Demme (06:36): You had to point to each side- Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:38): Yes, with my arms facing out. Beth Demme (06:39): -but it made your forearm visible. Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:40): Exactly, there you go. So basically I worked at an Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular show, an epics stunt spectacular show. And when I was in that position, every single person coming into the theater, they would see me pointing to the sides. And so every single person had the potential to see my arms. So that's when I really was trying to cover up that because I didn't want to make people uncomfortable. I didn't want to take away from the Disney experience. I didn't want my bosses to see it and be like, "Oh, we can't have you here." There was just so many things that ran through my mind of how I had to hide these scars. I can't have let people see these scars. But the farther it's gotten out from that, the more I don't care. I mean, they're right here. Beth Demme (07:27): It's also one of those things that I wonder if the more that you do to cover it up, if it doesn't draw more attention to it. Right? Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:33): Yeah. That's true. Yeah, exactly. Beth Demme (07:34): While you were a cast member, if you had had a tattoo there, would you have been required to cover it up? Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:40): I believe so. Beth Demme (07:41): Yeah, interesting. Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:41): I'm trying to remember because it was so long ago now, but, yeah, I don't think you can have tattoos. So I do believe... Oh yeah, you can't have tattoos or piercings. You can only have the regular studs, like females, you know, what do call... Beth Demme (07:54): Like earrings. Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:54): Regular earrings. Beth Demme (07:55): Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:55): But if you have any other piercings, like a nose piercing or anything, you have to cover it with a band-aid. Beth Demme (08:00): Oh, wow. Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:01): I remember that. Beth Demme (08:02): Which would just draw more attention to it. Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:03): It was so funny. Yeah. Because sometimes you'd see people with a bandaid on their ear or something and you're like, "Oh." And it's kind of funny. And then, yeah, I can't remember how people covered their tattoos. But, yeah, there was very strict things and you couldn't have odd colored nails and you couldn't have colored hair and things like that. Beth Demme (08:21): And it was blazing hot. So you were not going to wear long sleeves. Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:24): I don't think we had a long sleeve option at that ride. We did at my next ride. Each area had a costume. And some costumes you had long-sleeve, short-sleeve options. I believe we only had a short-sleeve option. I can't remember, but I can't imagine anyone would be wearing a long-sleeve because my attraction was outdoors. And it was the summer time. Beth Demme (08:43): Yeah. That would have been really hot. Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:43): We did have a hat option, which was nice. And it was kind of cool. Disney casting was super cool because you just go and you just scan what you need for your... And you can only get stuff for particular your area. If you tried to get something... But you were allowed rain gear and so I had my rain jacket. And you are allowed a water-bottle holder. It was fun. It was fun. But you didn't own it, you always had to return it. And you can return your costumes to be cleaned or you could just keep them clean them yourself. And I just cleaned them myself. Beth Demme (09:13): So our life experience is formed up of good stuff and bad stuff. And sometimes the bad stuff leaves a scar, but it also forms who we are. And so when we get to a place where we are able to be grateful for who we are or accept who we are or happy with who we are, then, I don't know, do you think that's the point at which it's easier to accept or to be thankful for those scars? Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:40): I think it's a process to be thankful. And I think people can go a lifetime without ever truly being thankful or I think there's plenty of people that would say, "You guys, this is not a great topic. No, don't tell me to be thankful. I'm not going to be thankful. This was a bad thing.' Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:00): I hear ya. I hear ya. We are not telling anyone that this is what you should do. We would never should on you. Beth Demme (10:06): No, we would never should on you. Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:08): I'll tell you, the actual kind of the way this topic came up was there's a Christian song and it's called Scars, I believe. We'll put in a link to it. But in there they say "thankful for my scars." And I was like, "Whoa, what an interesting term and way to look at things." And that's when I really thought about like, "Am I thankful for my scars?" Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:32): And I don't think it's something that can happen overnight. I don't think it's something that can happen with every scar for everyone. But I know for me the way I got to that place was through the work, through addressing where the scars came from and through actually living in the scars and not just... Accepting the scar, finding out where that scar came from, and healing from that scar. Even though a physical scar on my body may be healed physically, have I healed internally from that? Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:05): And that is something that has been a process with me. And like I say in our intro, I've been in recovery for 14 years. And that date is based on the day that I admitted to myself and to others that I couldn't handle this on my own and I needed help and support. And that's when I started going to therapy for NSSI and started everything. Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:29): And it wasn't just like a, "Okay, I've admitted it and now everything's perfect." And if you want the ins and outs of that, that is all what's in my book, of how I got to today. But I would say today I am thankful for my scars because they have brought me, today, to here, which I don't think if I had gone through and had these life experiences, same life experiences, I would be here today. Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:52): And I'm proud to be here. I'm proud to talk about things that people don't typically talk about. I'm proud to talk about... I'm not excited to talk about it, but I find it necessary to talk about the fact that I was molested as a two year old, as a five-year-old, as a 10 year old. That I dealt with depression most of my... Most of my life I've been depressed. That I have dealt with non-suicidal self-injury for years. And still, recently, had kind of another relapse that I shared on the podcast. Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:25): So I find it's important if we can't be real in life, then what's the point. We're human. I mean, to be human is to be flawed. We are not perfect in any way, shape, or form. And I think the more we acknowledge that the more we can come together and be stronger as people, as humans. Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:46): So my point is for me to really be thankful, it has taken years and it's taken therapy, it's taken recovery program, Christian community recovery, Celebrate Recovery, that I've gone through. It's taken constant work on my mental health. I see my therapist about once a month. And talking about things, not just letting things fester and grow, but really putting my mental health in the same position as I do my physical health, because I find they're equally as important. And making sure that they're both on the forefront of my daily life. Beth Demme (13:22): Yeah. The thing about being willing to talk about our scars and to process, whether we are thankful for them or not, the reality is, like you said, "To be human is to be imperfect." The human experience is going to necessarily involve some scars. It's mountains and valleys, it's ups and downs. Right? And to pretend like life is only ever mountain-top experiences or that life is perfect, it's not real. And it actually shuts ourselves off from ourselves. We can shut ourselves off from friends, family. I think we can even shut ourselves off from God. So I think it's valuable to acknowledge that life is hard sometimes. And that that doesn't mean we've done something wrong. Right? It doesn't mean that we have something we should be ashamed of. It just means we're alive. Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:22): Yeah. I accidentally clicked on a show on Netflix yesterday. I was trying to read the description and it started playing the first episode. And before I could just click out of it, it caught me, which was great. So whoever edits and produces that show, great job people. I think it's called Country Ever After. So it's like a black country singer married to this white hip hop dancer. And so they have these whatever. And anyways, at the beginning I was like, "Okay, this is that typical... We have the marriage story. Okay, great." Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:53): But it kept moving and I didn't click away. And then towards the end of it, they were talking about... The wife actually had found out she had stage three colon cancer, recently. And then I was like, "Oh, wait a minute." And so it was interesting because I really don't relate and don't enjoy things that are like, "Look at our perfect life. It is the greatest." And that's what I thought this show would be. And again, maybe it is. I actually... I did make it through the first episode. It was pretty cute. I was like, "I might watch this." Beth Demme (15:26): Is it fiction or non-fiction? Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:27): It's like a documentary style or what do you call... a reality show? It's reality show. Beth Demme (15:33): Oh, it's a reality show. Okay. Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:33): Yeah. It's their real life, yeah. Anyways, that really grabbed me when it was like, "Wait a minute, we're about to get real on this show. That would be very interesting to me." So, I don't know, when you were talking about being real, I realized there's so much fake out there. There's so much like, "Look at my perfect life," Instagram, and I just don't respond to that because I feel like the moment you say you have a perfect life, I'm sorry, I don't believe you. Beth Demme (15:58): Right. Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:59): We are all human. There is something that is not perfect there and I think it does a disservice to just show the perfect parts of life. I mean, I have no problem with showing happy, exciting, fun things. I think that's super important. Beth Demme (16:12): Of course, yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:13): But when it looks like you're putting on a show for me, that you're only showing me the polished, beautiful, edited photos, I'm like, "You know, I don't got time for this." But on the other side, I also don't want to ever tell someone that they have to share their scars, that they... Beth Demme (16:28): True. That's a good point. Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:29): That they have to share that. I mean, it is definitely a personal choice what you share, what you don't. I would never tell somebody "Your life looks too perfect. You got to show that real stuff," Unless it's a friend of mine that we can have an honest conversation about that, but that's a very personal thing. I totally understand that. It's scary to put yourself out there and to put that reality, because people are already judging you for your perfect life. How are they going to judge you for the imperfect parts? Beth Demme (17:00): Yeah. But also you would have that conversation with somebody you were in actual relationship with. Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:05): Yeah, yeah. Beth Demme (17:06): It's not like we're going to start blasting everybody on our Instagram for only showing us nice things. No, of course, we want to see that. Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:13): And we're humans, we want to see nice things. Yes. Beth Demme (17:15): Yeah. We want to be celebrating with people. Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:17): Exactly. Beth Demme (17:17): But the point is, on some level, whether you do it in your social media, or you do it in your one-on-one relationships, or you do it with yourself or your therapist, you and I have found a lot of value in coming to terms with what has created scars for us and acknowledging that those things can have layers that we have to revisit from time to time. And also that there will be things that continue to create scars. Right? I don't know what it will be, but if life is about and downs, then there will be some downs to come. Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:53): Well, I'm actually curious. We keep talking about thankful for the scars, but what would you say is the definition of... What does it mean to be thankful? Beth Demme (18:02): I think it means to recognize the healing and to recognize the progress and to recognize that it's not still an open wound, but that something about it has started to progress towards healing, and in that recognition we can find gratitude. Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:23): So something that I've noticed, the older I get and the more that I deal with my stuff, my scars, all the things, I notice I'm more willing to trust my instinct, trust that that feeling inside, which I consider kind of like going for with my heart. My heart tells me this is right. And I think that that's always been there, I've always had that, but I would question it and I would think, "No, my brain saying this, so no, no, I can't do this. I must be logical with all these choices." Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:54): Something kind of silly is we've talked about on the podcast... Actually, today is my two-year anniversary of adopting Mac. And last year we did an episode about kind of that year anniversary. And this is the two year. And I said, "I really didn't feel like it was time to have a second greyhound." And people have been asking me for two years, "Do you want to get a second greyhound?" I was like, "It doesn't feel right." Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:19): About two, three weeks ago it just popped. And it felt right. Beth Demme (19:23): It was like a light bulb. Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:24): It was. I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm going to get a second greyhound." And so I have applied and I have an appointment on Monday to go take Mac with me, and she is going to pick out her new best friend. They have 15 available right now, so I feel like she will find 15 friends and I will have to pick one for her because... Beth Demme (19:44): Not 15? Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:45): No, no. She's never met a greyhound she doesn't like though, so I'm like, "It's going to be hard for her to pick." Beth Demme (19:50): Yeah. I will say though, in typical Steph style, you weren't like, "Okay, the light bulb just went off. It's now time for a second greyhound." You were like, "I think it's time, but these three things are going to have to happen, and then I will apply." Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:04): Well, yeah. So it was like two, three weeks ago, and it was when my friend Daniel... He's been on the podcast. When his dog Max was coming to visit... It was like right before Max came to visit. So I said, "It feels like it's ready for another greyhound." If the week with Max goes well, then I will consider getting another one. Then it was Mac was having a teeth-cleaning coming up, which is kind of a big deal for greyhounds. I said if her teeth cleaning went well, then after that... Was there three? Beth Demme (20:31): Well because you had a trip to Orlando in between. Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:33): Oh yes. Oh, yeah. So it was like if Max... if that went well, if my trip to Orlando went well, and then if Mac's teeth cleaning went well, then I will get one. But true to form, right after she got her teeth cleaning, I filled out the application, got the call the next day, and I have an appointment for Monday. So yes, all my things ticked off the list. Beth Demme (20:52): Yep. Check, check, check. Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:53): Also, I've already ordered a second bed, ordered a double leash. They will be here today. Chewy will be delivering them at my door. Beth Demme (21:00): Because preparation is key. Preparation is key. Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:03): I don't go into anything... I mean, this is like a huge life thing. Beth Demme (21:07): For sure. Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:08): Any time kids, dogs, anything... Like buying a new house. Anything like that, I don't just like, "Hmm, maybe today." That's not me. So yeah, I put all of the necessary work into it. Beth Demme (21:19): So I think you were talking about intuition and how life experiences build our intuition and enable us to make better decisions. Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:28): Yeah. And really listening to that feeling. That feeling, not the brain that says that's not logical. The feeling of this is right. And I've really learned to allow my heart to speak to me and to say, "This is the step." Because then my brain will be like, "Mmm, another greyhound? Well then it's two of everything. And it's going to take up more room." Beth Demme (21:52): And your car is small. Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:54): Yes. Oh, my brain has gone through all of the list. And then I say, "No, brain, heart says yes, this is how we're moving forward." So I've actually learned how to balance kind of the brain and heart, allow them to both communicate. Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:06): Because I did talk about this in my book, where for a big part of my life my heart was shut down. I was just using my brain for everything. And I don't feel... And I wasn't a complete human being with just my brain kind of pushing me along, and I had no connection to my emotions. And I feel like I have a great connection to my emotions. I can still be logical. I can blend them together, but I also don't always give precedent to my brain. I don't always say, "Well, logically, it's not great to have a second greyhound." No, I feel like this is what needs to happen. Beth Demme (22:40): Heart and mind are connected. Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:41): Exactly. Beth Demme (22:42): Yeah. And that enables you to be fully you. That was one of the big learning moments for me, actually, in reading your book was understanding that NSSI was... It really came about for you because of that disconnect, that you were feeling something and you couldn't process the feeling because your heart and your brain weren't connected. And so it was like, well, I can't process this feeling. I need a way to explain it. Oh, if I engage in non-suicidal self-injury, I'll be able to see my feeling. Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:10): Yeah. Beth Demme (23:11): So that was a big learning moment for me from your book. So if people haven't read Discovering My Scars, they really should pick it up because well worth your time, in my not-so-humble opinion. Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:19): Beth also has a stake in the book. She's in the intro. Beth Demme (23:23): I mean, the forward is pretty great. It's pretty great. Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:27): I asked her and immediately she's like, "Yes, I will write the foreword." Just like she said when I asked her to do the podcast. So, Beth is a pretty cool person. If you can be friends with Beth, I highly recommend it, or find a Beth. Beth Demme (23:38): Also, at the risk of making my sound myself sound really bad, I realized I'm just an easy "Yes." I'm not an easy girl. I don't mean it that way. I'm not an easy woman. Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:47): I wasn't thinking that until you put it out there. Beth Demme (23:49): That's not what I mean. I just mean that I like to... Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:52): Say yes to things? Beth Demme (23:53): Yes. Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:54): See? Point made. Beth Demme (23:57): Yeah. Well, even as a parent. I tell my kids that all the time. I'm like, "I don't want to say no. I want to say yes, so you have to present your questions to me in a way that I can say yes, because I really would like to say yes." Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:09): That's so interesting. I've never thought about liking to say yes or no. Beth Demme (24:14): Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:14): That's interesting. I don't feel like I have a deep desire to say yes to things. I have a desire to process and make the right choice. But I wouldn't say like, "I really want to say yes." Beth Demme (24:26): Yes. My desire to say yes is probably is probably born from some of my scars. Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:30): Yeah, maybe. Huh? Beth Demme (24:31): And my need to achieve and to please people, it's probably all connected in there. Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:38): So, can you say no? Beth Demme (24:40): Yes. Yes, I can say no. I can say no. Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:47): Do you say no often? Beth Demme (24:48): No. I feel like this is a trap. Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:51): What's the last thing you said no to? Beth Demme (24:53): A family member asked me to co-sign on something, and I said no. Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:57): Well, that's an obvious no. Beth Demme (24:59): It wasn't obvious to my family member. Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:01): Well, yeah, but that's an obvious... That is a huge thing to do. Beth Demme (25:06): It wasn't a big amount of money. Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:08): Still, co-signing on a loan? Oh, my gosh. Beth Demme (25:10): It wasn't on a loan, it was on a rental application for an apartment. Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:14): That puts your name in a lot of... Beth Demme (25:16): That was my thought. Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:18): Yeah. No thank you, but thanks for thinking of me. Beth Demme (25:22): Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:23): So Beth, I said, as I get older, I've realized kind of the allowing my heart to lead and not being afraid of that and letting my brain kind of overtake that. Have you noticed that same kind of thing as you've gotten older? Or would you say... Beth Demme (25:37): I think the thing about getting older is just that we have more life experience. The more you experience, the more you can kind of give context to things. And I think it helps have... It has helped to improve my perspective. Right? Beth Demme (25:51): So when I was in my twenties, every time something happened it felt like this is the worst thing ever. I'm never going to be able to get over this. And now it's kind of like, "Oh, but look at everything that I have gotten over." Right? Look at everything that I have gotten to experience and move on from and how it has built me into the person that I am. And I'm in a place where I like myself. Beth Demme (26:14): So all of those things actually produced a result that I'm okay with. And so now when I hit a valley or whatever, it's like, "Okay, well, this too shall pass." Right? I'll be able to move on. So I think that's one of the advantages of... I mean, it's not really an advantage of age exactly, it's just an advantage of experience. What do you think? Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:36): Yeah, I totally agree. I used to stress about so many things and like, "Oh my gosh, well, what if this happens? What if this happens?" And then that never happens. Or if it does happen, I figure out how to get through it. And so now when things kind of happen, I realize I've gotten through that before. It's fine. Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:53): And I think that also goes back to how I am thankful for my scars because I've gone through some of the worst of the worst and I'm still here and I'm stronger and I'm better for it. And so that's why I think if I hadn't gone through those things, I wouldn't be I where I am today. And I'm so thankful for the life I have today. Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:16): We want to remind you that we have a website that's called Buy Me a Coffee where you can support our podcast by buying us a coffee or a tea. You could also become a monthly member on that page. And we have member-exclusive content. We have PDFs of our Questions for Reflections available. And we have some behind the scenes video of where we record. And some of the... Actually we came up with two poll questions today, before we started recording. We're like, "I'm curious about what people opinion is on these two things." Beth Demme (27:48): No, actually, it's things that I do that you're like, "That's weird," or things that you do that I think are weird. And so it's like "We should poll people and see if we're the only ones who think that..." Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:55): Are we the weird ones? Yes. Beth Demme (27:56): Who's weird here? Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:59): So by being a member, you can help us figure out if we're the weird ones or if not. So there'll be a link in the description where you can buy us a coffee. Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:13): Beth, I can't remember if we talked about this on the last episode, because we record a week in advance. So we're like a week behind on current events. But today is November 13th. Friday the 13th. Yes. Beth Demme (28:25): Friday the 13th in the year 2020. Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:28): 2020. And I just want to say democracy won in this election. Beth Demme (28:33): It looks like it will. Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:34): Biden took this election. And to me, I don't love Biden, but I love democracy and I love our country, and I think that's what won. So whatever side you were on, I hope we can all come together and have a more peaceful next four years. And I can tell you, I've been able to kind of breathe a sigh of relief and be able to move forward, and hopefully I'll still have healthcare. Beth Demme (28:59): Right. And I will say, I mean, having spent four years being really uncomfortable with a lot of things, if there are people who are listening who are really devastated that the Biden won, I would just say, "I know how you feel and still very much want to be your friend and I think that it's going to be okay. So maybe take a deep breath, pause a beat, and give it a chance." Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:26): And we love all of our listeners, whether you support whatever. And I think we have tried to share that. I mean, we've obviously shared our opinions because that's all we can really do. Beth Demme (29:40): We only know what we know, people. Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:41): I know. But I do want to remind you we have an episode about... where we had a conservative. My bro, Daniel, was on and talked about his political views. So I do want to let you know that that might be a good episode to take a listen to. Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:57): I also want to say, we have a list of topics that we want to talk about. We always are adding new things to the list. There are some really key topics we want to talk about, but we personally don't have experience with them, so we don't feel comfortable discussing them when we don't have the context. Stephanie Kostopoulos (30:11): So we are actually looking for guests for these particular topics, and they are topics, because, hey, this is Discovering Our Scars Podcast, so we just want to have an honest conversation. Beth Demme (30:19): And we want to talk about the things that people aren't often talking about. So we want to talk about things like, "What's it like to run for office and lose?" "What's it like to go through a divorce?" "What's it like to have had an abortion and have to deal with all the conversations around that?" "What is it like to be a transgender person?" We want to open up our conversations beyond our own personal experiences. And so we need your help to do that. Stephanie Kostopoulos (30:42): Yeah. So we have a link in description where you can click and email us if you are willing to share any of these topics. The topics will be listed. And if you are willing to share, let us know, and we will kind of have like a chat with you about it. And if you know someone that would be good for any of these topics, send it to them, and you, as the friend that knows them, ask them if this is something they'd be willing to do. Share the podcast with them. Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:08): And if so, just have them email us and we will contact them because we want to have honest conversations and we want to have many different types of conversations. So not just in our own sphere. So that's why we're really opening it up. We want all types of people; male, female, all different races, all different genders. And we're really, really open to that. Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:30): At the end of each episode we end with questions for reflection. These are questions based on today's show. Beth will read each one, leave a little pause between for you to pause the podcast and answer it to yourself. Or you can find the PDF version on our Buy Me a Coffee page. Beth Demme (31:43): Number one, make a list of your scars. Beth Demme (31:47): Number two, have you ever considered being thankful for your scars? Why or why not? Beth Demme (31:53): Number three. How do you feel about the healing your scars represent? Beth Demme (31:59): And number four. Do you have any open wounds that still need healing? What steps can you take today to move toward healing? Stephanie Kostopoulos (32:12): This has been the Discovering Our Scars Podcast. Thank you for joining us.
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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