Questions for Reflection
Each episode we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. You might pause the podcast and answer them right then and there, but if you keep a journal (Steph and Beth both do), you might find one of these PDFs useful. Choose the orientation that fits best in your journal.
Transcript
Beth Demme: Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Stephanie Kostopoulos: We have honest conversations about things that make us different. Beth Demme: Our mission is to talk about things you might relate to, but that you don't hear being discussed in other places. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Our hope is that you're encouraged to have honest conversations with people in your own life. I'm Steph. Beth Demme: And I'm Beth. On today's show, we are going to have an honest conversation titled: "What If My Dreams Come True? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Then we'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in your own life, with questions for reflection. Beth Demme: And the show will close with slice of life where we talk about what's happening right now. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So Beth, today, we are talking about dreams, essentially. So we probably need to set the stage because there's, I think it kind of different versions of dreams, like one is the dreams that you have when you're sleeping. Right? Beth Demme: That's not what we're talking about. Stephanie Kostopoulos: That's not what we're talking about. We are talking about the dreams that you're conscious of, that you consciously think and say, Hmm, I would love for that to happen one day. We're kind of delving into that concept today. And I guess what kind of spurred this on is something that I actually write about in my book, Discovering My Scars, is something really cool that happened was when I bought my house in 2013, me and my mom were painting what is my Lego room and I remember painting it in my head, I remember painting it and thinking in my head and kind of saying it in my head, wouldn't it be so cool if Home Depot paid me to paint my, to paint my house? Beth Demme: Right? That sounds like such a random idea to me, right? Stephanie Kostopoulos: I know! Beth Demme: Yeah! Stephanie Kostopoulos: And it was like this like, it was like a statement, and then it became like a feeling and like, and a dream. Like, wow, that would be the dream if Home Depot paid me to paint my house. But let me tell you, this is years before we started mother/daughter projects. This is years before you know, I even started making videos of us doing a project. So there was no concept of how that would ever happen. And I didn't say it to anybody because it seemed, you know, to use a word I don't like, crazy. It seemed crazy. Like, why would... And why would I tell someone that? Because you know if i told somebody... Here 2013, Beth. Beth Demme: Okay. Stephanie Kostopoulos: You are 2013 Beth. Beth Demme: I'm in my mind time machine. Stephanie Kostopoulos: We work together. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: We work together. I'm sitting across from you at your desk . Hey, Beth, guess what? I have a really cool new dream I'm super excited about, I just wanted to share it with you because I knew you probably, like, want to hear about it. Beth Demme: Oh, I'm so excited. What is it? Stephanie Kostopoulos: So I was painting my room and I just thought, you know what? It would be so cool if Home Depot paid me to paint my room! Beth Demme: Wow Steph, why would Home Depot do that? Stephanie Kostopoulos: I don't know! But that is the coolest thing, don't you think? Like, that's my dream now. I want that to happen. Beth Demme: I don't think I would know how to respond, like, in the moment, right? Because it's like, all I can think when I put myself in that position is the question that I asked: why would Home Depot do that? But you found a way to make it happen actually. So I know it is a dream that has come true, can come true. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. So I do talk about it in the book actually, about two years or four years after that. Two years? I don't remember math. It's written in there. Almost like to the day, I was painting the outside of my house with my mom and we were, you know, fully in mother/ daughter projects, and we were painting the outside of my house because Home Depot was paying us to do that. Beth Demme: That’s so cool. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And it was literally painting, and they were paying us to do it. So it is definitely a dream that came true. But I didn't share it with people because I thought they would react like you, Beth from 2013, who said, well, how's that gonna happen? And I didn't know how it was gonna happen. Beth Demme: Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So I felt like if I told somebody, they would discourage me, and you know, say that was such a, you know, crazy idea, and then, you know, make me feel, you know, little about it and not like and try to like, push me into like, well, how's that gonna happen? Well, you need to put the work in. And it's like, no, I just want to share with you, I want you to be excited about something that I'm excited about. Beth Demme: Yeah, and I think people want to ask us questions when we share our dreams because they want to show interest, but sometimes it can shut down our dreams instead of actually like inspiring them or spurring them on, because it's like, oh, yeah, I guess that isn't a very, I guess that isn't very likely or possible or sensible. So I probably need to let go of that. Like, I can just, you know, I can just imagine like, shrinking under the questions, even if that's not what the other person is intending to have happen. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Okay, so let's play our scenario again, and you be you be Beth that's just super encouraging, excited for me, even though you Beth, have no clue how it's gonna happen. Beth Demme: Okay, I'll try. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Okay. Hey, Beth, Beth from 2013! Hey, I have a cool dream that I'm excited to share with you! Beth Demme: Tell me about it. What is it? Stephanie Kostopoulos: So I was painting my room in my new house and I realized, you know what? It'd be so cool if Home Depot paid me to paint my house! Beth Demme: That would be so cool! You really love Home Depot, don't do? Stephanie Kostopoulos: I really do love Home Depot. Every time I go to Home Depot I just feel so excited and I just feel empowered and I just want to, like, make all the projects and do all the things. I just love Home Depot! Beth Demme: Yeah, and they sell paint. So maybe that's a thing! Stephanie Kostopoulos: We need to work on your enthusiasm, Beth, but okay. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think you were convincing. Beth Demme: I was smiling while I said it. Stephanie Kostopoulos: You weren't convincing in your face, your face gives it all away. Beth Demme: Yeah, I do not have a good poker face. It's true. Yeah, you could just read my face. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yet you even knew what happened. You know what's even happened and you still can't, you still can't be encouraging of an example. I guess it's hard. I guess we've learned that it's hard. How about we have you give a scenario? Do you have a dream that came true? Beth Demme: It's hard for me to think about it that way, because at this point I feel like I'm such an open book, it's hard to think of things that I... It's hard to remember when I didn't share. But- Stephanie Kostopoulos: Well, my example is literally in my book. Beth Demme: Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So it wasn't like I had not shared it before. Beth Demme: Right. There are two that come to mind. And one is that when my husband and I decided that we were going to do, we were going to try IVF, invitro fertilization, we didn't tell anybody, because it felt like a really private thing and because we weren't sure if it was going to work, and we didn't want to deal with people's questions or doubts or concerns. And then the other thing is that we built our dream house, like we live in the house that we dreamed of for years, and we spent hours and hours and hours and I mean, literally countless hours going over the plans and doing the details and thinking about where every outlet was going to go and what the doorknobs are gonna look like, you know, we just, we really poured ourselves into that. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Did you tell people that you were building your dream house, though? Beth Demme: At some point I started referring to it that way, because it really is, it was and it is. But then people sort of reacted weirdly to that. So I stopped saying it. Stephanie Kostopoulos: How so? Beth Demme: I think it sounded like a brag instead of a celebration. And I didn't mean it as a brag, I really meant it as like, I'm so excited that this is happening, you know, that we're making this happen, that it is a dream come true. But people get funny about that. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So you were finding when you were sharing your dreams, and I would say a dream really can be anything, it can be something small, it could be something huge, it could be something that, you know, involves that you've been successful, you've gotten the money that you needed to build this. And I do think there's something that I think it's a jealousy thing, and why do we have that? Like why is that? Why can't we be happy for someone in where they are and their space and their time and their place? And why do we like internalize it, like, I feel like there's a very human thing to, like, someone tells us something and our initial reaction, even if we're able to, like, you know, control it our initial reaction is, well, I don't have my dream house. Like, why is that? Why are people, and I think that might be a reason why we don't necessarily share our dreams because they might make people jealous as well. Beth Demme: Actually, I'm remembering that as we were finalizing our plans, I don't think we had actually broken ground yet. I think we were still working on the plans. I actually had an acquaintance who was also in the process of building, she and her husband, they were building their dream house. And so I remember when I brought it up like oh my gosh, we have this in common. That's so amazing! She was like, well, we're building a very large house. And I was like, okay... I mean, it was just like- Stephanie Kostopoulos: Like one up me. Beth Demme: Yeah, yeah. So it was kind of funny. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Well, spoiler I've been to your house, it's very large. Beth Demme: Right. So then we started- Stephanie Kostopoulos: I don't want to know what their house looks like. Beth Demme: I was like, that's really, like, we ended up using some of the same vendors, we had, like so, so much was in common about our process. But it was like if I was doing it too, it was taking something away from her dream, which wasn't my intention. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. Beth Demme: Right. Again, I just really was trying to celebrate that we had this in common. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. Beth Demme: You also had a dream about writing your book. Right? Stephanie Kostopoulos: I did. Yeah. Well, so as we're talking about, like, these kind of things, I'm curious, do you think a dream is the same thing as a goal? Or are those two separate things? Beth Demme: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think that there are some goals that can be dreams. But maybe the opposite is also true that there are dreams that really wouldn't be goals. Stephanie Kostopoulos: I don't know. I kind of feel like it's one and the same. I think we use the term goal because it's easier to digest, sometimes, than dream. But I, in my mind, I'm kind of just rattling off things and I'm thinking, I'm thinking they could be the same thing, just, you know, said in a different way. I think a goal makes it sound like you know, I've action behind it. I'm working on it right now. Beth Demme: That’s a good word, action. I do think of goals as being action oriented. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah, taking action. Because my dreams, I have no idea how to take action on a lot of my dreams because I have no idea how they're gonna happen. So actually, with my book I had wanted to write, I had been feeling like I needed to write a book for, you know, a good portion of my life, like, even as a you know, a middle schooler and never knew how it would happen and never knew what the book would be about, didn't even know it was, you know, my story, I had no idea, never told anybody because it seems so and I'm also dyslexic. And so I also had that shame of like, I don't want to tell somebody. I had the shame of I don't want to tell somebody that I want to write a book and then them say to me, you're dyslexic, you can't write a book. Beth Demme: Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Like, I also didn't want that to be, you know, put on me. And so I never really shared it until, and I started writing it actually, when I was in the mental hospital back in 2006, so the story actually started way back then. And I did tell a couple people like, like my mom knew, maybe like my psychologist, maybe a couple of close friends, but I just was kind of like, I'm writing this and, you know, I don't know what's gonna happen with it. I'm just, you know, don't ask me about it. It was very like, ah, and it wasn't until you know, a few years ago that I actually went back into it and I don't even think I shared with too many people that I was writing a book, you know, the close people, I'm pretty sure I told you I was writing a book. Beth Demme: Yeah, I was just thinking that, I was like, that is a good example of something you told me where I was encouraging. Stephanie Kostopoulos: You were encouraging. Beth Demme: We would meet for coffee, check in on how the book was going- Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes. Beth Demme: And I thought it was important that you write it and I understood that dream. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And you knew my story, like because we had been in recovery together. Beth Demme: Yes. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And so like you knew the story, and you really encouraged it. Yeah, so I guess I shared it with the people that I knew would be like, encouraging and knew my story also, and wouldn't like ask too many questions about Oh, you're so young. What do you have to write? Because I have had people say that. Even now, they'll be like, you're 34? What do you have to write your life story? I'm like, oh, there's a lot in there. But okay. Beth Demme: Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So I was like, read the book, and you'll find out. So I think for me, the reason I didn't share that was because, you know, I didn't want people to make me feel almost embarrassed or shameful for having these dreams. And that's why I hadn't shared them until I was actually taking action and I only shared it with like, a select amount of people. Beth Demme: Yeah, and at that point, you can share it because - Stephanie Kostopoulos: I was taking action. Beth Demme: Because you were taking action and because their encouragement could actually help you continue to take action, right? Like it would be a positive thing. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. And it would give me accountability. Right, potentially, which that's, you know what, I think that's a big part of it. Maybe we don't share our dreams with people because we don't want to be accountable. Beth Demme: Hmm. Stephanie Kostopoulos: I think there's a big part of that, because if you and also like I, to me, most of my dreams don't have a timeline. A little dream was when I was younger, I wanted to get a tattoo and I never shared that with anyone because first of all, I thought, you know, tattoos are for other people, I can't have a tattoo. Beth Demme: Oh no! Stephanie Kostopoulos: And then too, like, my mom will never agree with that. And also, I didn't know exactly what it was gonna be and it was also very personal and so I didn't want to have to go into all the details. And so that dream actually did happen back in 2012. I did get a tattoo, it's on my book, on the cover. I'm pretty proud of it. I didn't do it myself. I hired a great artist. Beth Demme: It’s also a cover of your website of stephaniekostopoulos.com. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes, it is. So that would be an example of like a little dream. And I will tell you, my mom still is not 100% on board with the tattoo and that's okay. She can have her prerogative, but maybe it's a mom thing. Beth Demme: So was that a dream? Or a goal? Or an idea? And what's the difference? Stephanie Kostopoulos: I think that's a great question because I was toying, I was playing around with that yesterday, after we had kind of talked about planning this. Something that I've mentioned on the podcast before, and I've mentioned to people before, and when I say it, probably 80% of the people say a discouraging thing about it, which every time makes me kind of annoyed. And then also makes me kind of like, I'm going to do it, despite what you're saying. So what this thing is, is, I've talked about that I've had the idea of potentially in the future adopting an older child. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And about 80% of the people say, oh, older kids have problems. Like, that's the first thing they say! And it's like, well, duh! Beth Demme: Right, like you don't know that. Stephanie Kostopoulos: What human doesn't have problems? Yes, I know this. Why do you think they need to be adopted? Yes, I get it. So I've told that to people. And I do get discouraged. I actually now when I say it, initially, right after I say it, I say and I know they have problems. I know older kids can have problems. Beth Demme: Oh right. Stephanie Kostopoulos: I like to say it before they can say it because I'm just like, don't you put that on me. But I'm trying to figure out, is it a dream? Is it an idea or a dream? Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Because I don't necessarily 100% sure I want it. And can a dream be something you're not 100% you want? I'm kind of toying with that it can't, I'm toying with the fact that it is a dream, like it's this lofty, it's this lofty idea of I could potentially be a good parent to someone that needs a parent. Beth Demme: Let me just affirm that. I do think that you would be a good parent. You are a very loving and caring person, which I think is at the heart of it and you have a lot of self-awareness, which I think is key for parenting. So let me affirm that. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Thank you. Is it an idea? Is it a dream? Is it the same? I'm kind of toying with also, weird, might take this out, last night, I was for like, 20 minutes looking for a movie to watch, because there was like nothing on. I'd finished a series. I was like looking for a movie. And I was going through all the places, all the places. And then I come upon this movie called Instant Family. And I was like, Oh, it looks like a funny comedy and it's probably about, I didn't know what it was about, but I was like, oh it's probably about like a couple that gets together and then they bring their kids from a divorced family or something together. And I start watching it. Oh, my gosh, it is about... Have you seen it? Beth Demme: No. But I've seen the previews for it. Stephanie Kostopoulos: It is about... It is great, number one, it is about this couple that goes to become foster parents to potentially adopt, and they adopt three kids because they're- Beth Demme: Siblings. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Siblings. Yes. It was so well done. It was like you, and you think- Beth Demme: It’s like Jennifer Garner or something right? Stephanie Kostopoulos: No, it's, she plays the bride in Bridesmaids and Mark Wahlberg. I mean, come on him as a dad, yeah. And it's just so, it's actually really well done. But it was just so interesting. And it's actually based on the writers experience with similar things. I guess maybe he's gone through the program or something. But it was like, and they actually do show like the kids having issues because yeah, older kids have issues. And they do address that, you know, in a good, in a meaningful way, where you're not completely discouraged, but you do see like reality. And I thought it was like really well done. I was like, Oh my gosh, it's so good. But it was just so weird that I was thinking about this, like, dream idea thing and then I saw this movie after looking for like, 20 minutes for somebody to watch. It was good. Beth Demme: I just looked it up. It's Rose Byrne. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes, that's her name. Yep. Beth Demme: Yeah, that is actually a really fun coincidence. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. Beth Demme: You know, and like, kind of, maybe help solidify that, or not solidify it, but I still affirm it. Stephanie Kostopoulos: It still was affirming. Yeah, exactly. It was more affirming. I still am not like 100% like, I'm getting a kid tomorrow. But I could easily see one day in the future, when the right circumstances happen, that it could happen. And I don't know about three, but it was so good. The film is on Amazon Prime if you want to see it. That's where I found it. Beth Demme: So I wonder if the difference between an idea and a dream, because you said that that's an idea and you're not 100% sure, I think you said you weren't 100% sure that it's something that you want, maybe at the point where that clicks over to 100% that's the point where it becomes not an idea but a dream. Stephanie Kostopoulos: When I start taking action behind it? Beth Demme: Maybe that's when it becomes a goal. And also, these are just words, right? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, no, they are just words and it is just like, you know, we're not gonna be able to, like, officially define anything like it is what it is like, it is just however it sits with people. Beth Demme: It’s true. No one has given us that authority. Stephanie Kostopoulos: No, to update the dictionary. But I'm just, I guess the reason why idea, goal and dream are like sitting with me is because, is it easier to call something one of those things instead of a dream? Like when you call something a dream does it become more weight to it? Or does it become unattainable? Or more attainable? Beth Demme: Yeah, that's a really good insight. And who's gonna hold you accountable for your ideas? Right? Oh, it's just an idea. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. Beth Demme: It’s just an idea, don't come back and ask me questions about it, don't have any expectations about whether or not I'm going to do it. But if I say this is a dream or a goal, there's an expectation that I'm going to do everything I can to make it happen. So idea feels safer. Stephanie Kostopoulos: It feels like less commitment to it. In a dream, a dream just feels like this lofty, like, I don't know, you know, I haven't, I don't have the answers. I just was like it just kind of processing. It was just kind of interesting. And I don't know, as I sit here, I feel like I think we can dream many different dreams, and they may not come true because life changes and our situations change and our motivations change. So I think I could say that adopting an older kid one day is a dream. It may not happen, but I wouldn't feel like I failed if that didn't happen. Like I do dream of having, you know, being able to provide a home for a kid that needs it, like I do, like I can see that. But if it doesn't happen, I don't feel like I would feel like a failure in life. I would just think, you know, circumstances changed or it wasn't the right time. Because I think also like I think we've said like dreams I don't feel like have a time limit. It's like a timeline. It's like, you know, I wanted to write a book 25 years ago, and now it happened, but that it happened when it was supposed to happen. I don't know. I think it's important to call something a dream rather than an idea. It gives it more weight and power in a good way, I think, like in an important way in our head, I don't know, it gives it more substance. If we say, yeah, I dream of, you know, having a kid one day, I think that'd be cool. Beth Demme: And maybe we need to give ourselves permission to think about this could change, so that we have the freedom to dream. Because if it's like, well, if I say this dream out loud, or I admit it to myself, or I admit it to someone else, then I have to start taking steps to make it come true. And no, it can just be a dream, it can just be that big idea that maybe will come to fruition in the future, and maybe it won't. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And I think that's why I think a goal is also a dream as well. Because I think a lot of times people ask me a lot, people ask me, my dad just the last weekend asked me that. He's like, in five years, where, what are your goals for mother and daughter projects? And I said, I have no idea. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Like, I'm not the person that sits down and says, Okay, here's my five year plan. To me, that's so limiting, to sit down and like and to say, Well, this is where everything's gonna go, I have no idea. I want to see where life takes me, I'm gonna take these steps. But I have no idea what that next step is, like, did anyone know the pandemic was coming? I don't know. So there's things that happen that we have no clue are gonna happen. So I don't know, don't ask me where I'm going to be in five years, I have no clue. But I know, I'm going to be somewhere that I had no idea and it's probably going to be pretty great. And if it's not pretty great I'm still going to keep on keeping on. Beth Demme: That is a thought exercise that my husband and I do it together a lot, especially when we're on road trips. It's like, okay, where do you see us in five years and 10 years, and I just happen to be in a season right now where I don't feel like I'm dreaming very well, or I'm just not dreaming like so where do I see myself in five years? I can't see it. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. Beth Demme: Right. Or, we were having dinner the other night, and we happened to have gotten takeout from Chili's. And I was like, this year, we will celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. 25 years ago, we were eating Chili's, like, this is a thing like, you know, it was at that time, it was probably our favorite restaurant. And so as a Do you think in 25 years, we were still gonna be sitting around, having a good time talking and eating Chili's? And he's like, I hope so. Right? I'm like I don't think Chili's will be, I don't think that's a 50 year kind of I don't know. Stephanie Kostopoulos: I don't know, it's been around a long time. Beth Demme: But it like, hard for me to envision that. That is unusual for me, I can usually picture beyond. I have found that when it comes to vocation, like when it comes to my work, I feel like for a long time now God has only shown me the next step. And it's almost like, if I saw 10 steps ahead, I would jump ahead of myself, and probably trip over my own feet, kind of thing. And so I can only ever see the next step. And now I'm at a point where I'm wondering, have I just been marching forward without pausing to think about my direction. This is very, like specific, but I was just commissioned in the United Methodist Church. So I'm now what's called a Provisional Elder. So the next step is to become ordained, and you have to take ordination vows, and it's a vow for life. And I'm not going to take that vow unless I really mean it. And it's at least two years away, probably three years with the schedule that I put myself on. So it might be that that's why I'm feeling this, like impending crossroad, because I'm really thinking a lot about how important it is to take that seriously and how I will not take the vow unless I really can say it and mean it. And that also may be sort of stunting and maybe stunting my imagination a little bit, because I'm so focused on that particular crossroad. So I am commissioned now and the next and final step would be ordained. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Okay. So is that a dream of yours? Beth Demme: Yes. What I'm not sure of is if it's a dream that is changing or shifting. Stephanie Kostopoulos: At the end, in two, three years when that happens, if you decide you can't take that vow, will you feel like you have failed your dream? And that being a negative thing? Beth Demme: Right. I guess my hope would be that if it shifts away from that dream that I'll be able to then envision my next thing. You know, another part of this could be the phase of life that I'm in because as a parent, a lot of life is defined by the milestones that our kids have right and my son has just moved to college. So like, we're not empty nesters, we still have a high school junior at home and loving my time with her but maybe it is this sense of like, okay, so much... When Stephen and I got married 25 years ago, like so much was ahead of us. And now a lot of that is behind us. So it would be good if we could forecast some of what's ahead. And we are extremely lucky to have achieved a lot of our goals. And so it's like, a lot of it's done. Like Check, check, check. Okay, what's next? I'm gonna have to think about that. Stephanie Kostopoulos: I used to feel shame for not like knowing you know, what the five year plan, the 10 year plan, I felt like society told me like you got to know what's next and where you're going and you gotta everything. You know, one of my least favorite clichés I think ever is "dress for the job you want, not the one you have." I despise that, we'll get into that in another episode, but oh my gosh, that is a cliché, I just want to, if someone says that to me, I want to throw something at them. Okay. So my main point of that was, I felt shame in not knowing where I was going. And when I started recovery, one of the clichés that we say and I freakin say and actually love is "one day at a time," live one day at a time. And it is so true, I have adopted that, I have held on to that. And that's what I do. I live life one day at a time. And I don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring, I don't know if I'm gonna be here tomorrow. But I know I'm here today. And I want to do the best I can today. For me, if I'm truly following God's plan, and like having him at the forefront, then even if there's a dream that doesn't, if I, you know, I spent 10 years doing something, and then at the end, like, it's all done, I know, it's gonna be worth it. I know, there was a reason I went through that, I know that I had to do that to get to where I am. And that's how I feel about recovery. I know, it was so hard, and I've gone through like so much junk, things have happened to me, things I've had to recover from and I know that happened to me for a reason. And I know that I'm a stronger, better person for it. Our title is actually What If My Dreams Come True? And we haven't really digged into that too much. Beth Demme: Well, maybe a good example of that is the existence of this podcast, because I was dreaming about doing a podcast and didn't tell anybody, didn't tell you. And then we met for coffee and you were like, Okay, I have this idea. And I, and I - you like were nervous to tell me. And the idea was that you wanted to do a podcast and I was like, Yes. Like I've been dreaming about this! Stephanie Kostopoulos: No, no. You said- Beth Demme: In my head, that's what I did. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Okay, because that first time where I told you I want to do a podcast, in my head I had already picked you as my podcast co-host. But I, in my head, I was like, I can't say this out loud. Why would she ever want to do a podcast with me? That is so random. Why would she ever want to do that? And so I just shared with you that I wanted to do a podcast, which was scary enough. But I was too afraid to say "and do you want to be my co-host?" Because I'm like, why would she say yes? So you're saying in your head at that initial meeting you were like, Yes, I want to do it with you? Beth Demme: In my head at the initial meeting I was like, I want to do that, but I don't want to take Steph's dream from her, and I have to stop always volunteering for everything. And so I like held myself back. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Wow. Beth Demme: But I very much wanted to do it. And eventually, we figured that out, that we wanted to do it. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So it was still months later, I finally, I'd actually been praying about it for a while, like, how do I do this? I can't come up with any names, but that's the only name I can come up with. And I finally met with you again and I said it and I didn't even finish the words. I was like, would you want to be like, "I would, I would" like literally, I didn't even finish. And I was like what? Beth Demme: Yeah, because I was dreaming about it, too. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So we were both dreaming about it, and both too afraid to actually say it out loud. Beth Demme: But then once we said it out loud, we were intentional about it, right? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes. Beth Demme: We planned for this is going to happen and- Stephanie Kostopoulos: We're going to continue it. We met for months before we even recorded anything. We met for months coming up with ideas, topic ideas. I researched microphones and audio equipment and took on all that. And then we decided that we were going to record three episodes right from the bat to release them all at once at the beginning and then we decided, you know, we want to be able to keep this up. So let's, what can we commit to every two weeks? And that's where we started. And then when a year hit, we decided that we could commit to doing one a week and that's what we've been doing since. Beth Demme: Yeah, it's one of the good things that came out of the pandemic. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes, exactly. Beth Demme: Because we wanted to do it every week during the pandemic, because it seemed like it was something that was going to happen and then be done. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah, little did we know. Beth Demme: Was way wrong about that, but it showed us that we could actually sustain this pace, and that it would still be fun. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah, exactly. So that was part of it, is we never want to lose focus. We never want it to just like be a job or something. We want it to be something where we felt like fulfilled and that we were providing something that could be helpful to other people. And so I guess in that sense is, when we realized that we both had this dream of wanting to do a podcast, we started from the beginning, as if this was a thing, this was a full-fledged thing that was going to happen. So we set out knowing that this dream was going to happen and we put the work in and we planned and we didn't just start out by saying well, you know, we'll get a mic and see what happens because that was initial thought was like let's get cheaper mics and, you know, just you know, not put a lot of investment into it and then ultimately it was like, No, this is something we're going to do. We're going to do for, you know, an extended amount of time and don't know how long, but it doesn't matter. We're doing it, we're committed and we got good mics from the beginning, we got the right equipment and I always believe if you have the right equipment. You'd never want your equipment to be a barrier to making something happen, because it's already tough enough talking about like, deep stuff and I don't want to have to be like annoyed that our mic broke or whatever. So that was part of why it was important to have everything, you know, set up from beginning. Beth Demme: Yeah, and one of the reasons that I had been dreaming about participating in a podcast or having a podcast is that I love to listen to podcasts. And so from the outset, like I could think of podcasts that I thought had amazing content and terrible audio quality and how that did not last for me. I wasn't, you know, I was like, I can't continue to listen to this. So from the outset, we were like, Okay, how do we do this? And how do we do it right? And I think part of that was based on your experience with mother daughter projects, not in a negative way, but having created something that developed initially, organically and then putting structure around it, you're like, you know, we can start with structure from the beginning. So we literally drew a box. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah, oh we did. It's right here! Beth Demme: Our work our four corners. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. Beth Demme: We really- Stephanie Kostopoulos: We were intentional. Beth Demme: We were intentional. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah, we were intentional about our dream. And so like with mother daughter projects, it was very organic. We just were like, hey, look, let's try this, like, let's see if we enjoy doing this. Like, let's like film our projects and, you know, if we like it after it, initially, I said, Let's make five videos. And if we still are at it, then we'll start a website, and if we're still at it, we'll start Facebook, you know, we made these little, you know, these little checklists. But what I learned from that is, you know, if you really feel like this is where you're going, you know, get that all laid out at the beginning. And so and that's what I've done, like with my book, and with the podcast, I've set things up from the beginning to be businesses and to be like, have everything set how they need to be so that when the dream is reality that I'm set up for success, and I'm not like scrambling like, Whoa, how did this all happen? Wait, I don't have an LLC. Wait, wait, how do I get paid? What's... I don't... I don't know what to do here. I figured that all at the beginning so that when all of that happens, you know, I'm ready to go. Beth Demme: It’s like setting the stage for your dream to come true. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Exactly. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: For when it comes true. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah. And so I think it's something societally I kind of, something that kind of irks me is, you know, especially in America, it's like dream big, you dream and it can happen, you know, it's all these kind of like things, but we never, the next step is like, we'll dream it, great, do that then plan how it's going to happen and set yourself up for success from the very beginning. And, you know, where do you want to be? How can you set up today for where you want to be then, so that when that happens, you know, I see a lot of, there's a lot of YouTube stars that are just personalities, kind of like sharing their days and stuff that, you know, just started out, like, Oh, this is fun. And then, you know, 10 years later, they're huge on YouTube. And they're kind of like at a loss, because they're like, I didn't ever think that this was going to be this. And they weren't set up for success from the beginning. And a lot of them have left YouTube because they're having kind of mental breakdowns that and also, they shared stuff that was completely inappropriate, like for years that they shouldn't have been sharing, but they never had that forethought of like, this is what it's gonna be. And also, you know, 10 years ago on online was completely different than it is today. So there's only so much you can like, plan out, but, well assume that dreams are gonna happen. Beth Demme: Yeah. And I think one difference there is, there's a difference between planning to be a personality and to share your personality and to actually be a content creator. They are two different things and that that's one of the things that has shifted in terms of all social media, including YouTube in the last decade. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah, exactly. That's what my mom and I do. We are online content creators. And that's what we're doing here. We're sharing, you know, we are sharing our lives, but we're really trying to share good quality content that is something that people could listen to, and hopefully take something from. And that was also from the very beginning of the podcast was like, how can we give people nuggets in these shows, and that's where questions for reflection was always part of the beginning. We didn't know the name of it, but man we spent a lot of time, we had ridiculous things written for that. And we finally were like questions for reflection. Good. Beth Demme: That’s what it is. That's what they are. They are questions for reflection. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Because it feels right now, but I remember we had like, think points and just like all these things, and it was like, none of these work. Beth Demme: We have spared y'all from so much. You just don't even know. Stephanie Kostopoulos: All the planning we put into it. Exactly. So you know, I think a great way to kind of end this would be Beth, I would love to know, a dream that you have right now that you have not shared with anyone or maybe just like a you know, husband or something like that. Beth Demme: Okay, so there are two. Do you want me to share both of them or you want me to pick one? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Share both. If they're bad, I'll edit it out. Beth Demme: One dream is to study abroad or maybe like to work on a PhD but abroad, maybe somewhere in the UK, like somewhere in England. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Okay, nice. Beth Demme: And then another one is to have the kind of lifestyle where I'm living in different places throughout the year. Right. So I'm living here in Florida for six months and a day because that's what you need for residency. But then the other six months are spent, you know, in the Pacific Northwest or abroad, you know, something like that like to just to be able to have that kind of freedom and adventure as a lifestyle. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Nice. I love it. Thank you for sharing. Those are great. Beth Demme: Thanks for asking. And what about you? What are, share with us your dreams? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Actually when you shared that, it made me think of a dream that didn't come true. Beth Demme: Oh, what was that? Stephanie Kostopoulos: That I just thought of. 2012, this film came out, documentary came out called Tiny House, I think it was called Tiny House. And it was about this guy that built a tiny house and he travelled with it and it was like, it wasn't just an RV, it was like looked like a house on wheels. And it was the coolest thing. And I'm like, I just fell in love with this concept of living small and minimal, and being able to travel. So I literally put a lot of research and time into getting one of these houses, figuring out a truck to pull this house, going and like I actually tried to figure out a way to still work for Apple, but work at different Apple stores. Like I put all of this time and energy into this- Beth Demme: That's cool. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And I thought it would be so cool to travel And to do this. And then in 2000 and then like the next year is when I just felt like I needed to be back in Tallahassee with my one nephew at the time And then my second nephew was born. Oh, no, my first nephew and then my second nephew was born, it was after my second nephew was born that I felt the pull to come back to Tallahassee because I was like I got to be part of their lives, I got to be here. And that's where that whole travelling thing completely crumbled. And I moved to Tallahassee, but I do think it's related. I had this whole, it helped me push to realize what I wanted and where I needed to be. So I don't look at it as like, and I still possibly, you know, it's still a dream I have, like, it would be cool one day if everything aligns, and it's the right move, but I don't feel like it failed at the time. I just feel like it, he brought me to where I am today. And it was and I was even talking about blogging the experience and so a whole long story, but me and a friend of mine we were talking about cereal. And he was saying the only brand of cereal that was like hadn't like was actually healthy for you is called Nature's Path, name of the cereal. And I was like oh, Nature's Path. And I was like oh, Little House on Nature's Path. Ooh, what a cool title for my blog. And so it was this whole thing where the nature's path was like, what I was gonna call my blog, and then that never happened. And then when I moved into my house, I was like, I got to name my house and I decided to call it Nature's Path. Beth Demme: I never knew that that's why you called the house Nature's Path. I mean, I knew that that is the name of this house. But I never knew why. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yeah, it's called Nature's Path because my old dream became a new dream. Alright, so back to the question of what are my current dreams? Yeah, because that was an old dream that I thought of. Beth Demme: Well, let me just say, I think that that's helpful, though, because it's like we.. What if my dreams come true, gives us the freedom to dream and we can do it with a mindset of this could lead me to new awareness, this could lead me to my next thing like, yeah, how it helped you have clarity about where you needed to be for the next season of your life. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So one big dream that I have that, ultimately, I've always seen my story as a TV show, as a series, as a series of kind of visual stories because that's, I'm a very visual person that's, you know why I make Do It Yourself videos and not just Do It Yourself pictures. And so I always tell my story as a, as a series. You know, my dream is actually a Netflix series. I do love a good Netflix series. And so I have no idea how I'm going to get it there. But I knew I needed to get the story out, and at first I needed to get it out on paper in a like logical way. And so that's really what propelled me to write the book. I ultimately want it to be a series, but this was the first step. Beth Demme: I think that's so cool. And I'm ready to watch it, like produce it so I can watch it right? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Which was the hard part of writing the book is because I saw everything visually as I was writing it. I saw it all visually and so like, it's hard being the author because I could see it all but I had to make sure the reader could see it all. And so there's times where I had to step back and say what do I see? How do I describe that in words? And there's just there's like feelings like that happened when you like when you can see it that you can't in a book and so I had to figure out how to do that. And another dream I have, I have a dream to produce a musical. Beth Demme: That's so cool. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And number one I have no musical background or talent in music. I love musicals. Beth Demme: Right, right. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So I do have that going for me. And I feel like musicals are just so... There's... I can't describe a musical. I love, love musicals. I like fell in love when I saw my first Broadway show in 2002. I just think there's something so interesting about them and so you can't experience in another way. So my musical is actually, there's a show, there's a musical called Next to Normal. And it was about, it's a very intense musical. It's about this woman dealing with mental illness and she sees like, her son had passed away, but she still sees him. And it's very, like, it's a very tough musical. But once, I had never seen a musical that really handled issues like that intense and it wasn't a comedy, and it wasn't like we're happy at the end. Beth Demme: Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos: It was like Oh, well, this is sad. We found out that he's not really there. Oh, okay. So we're seeing him but he's not alive. Beth Demme: Wow. I do think of musicals as like happy productions. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Exactly. Beth Demme: This is intriguing to me that you could explore all emotions through a musical. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Yeah, I really liked that musical, IT was really tough. My mom did not like it. It's called Next to Normal, I don't know if I said that. It really was intriguing to me. It wasn't enjoyable, but it was like, it really put the thought in my head that musicals don't have to just be happy, happy all the time. And so my musical is, is similar to Next to Normal, but it has a happy ending. It's basically about someone struggling with mental illness, but in the end, it's a happy ending, because in stories, I just, I like a happy ending. I like a there to be, it doesn't have to be happy, but it needs to be like satisfying. It needs to be a satisfying ending. If I committed two hours to ingesting this thing, I need to be, you know, rewarded with something like okay, not just like- Beth Demme: I like movies with closure. Like I like to have a complete story. So when you do your musical, I totally like support the idea of having solid closure. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Oh, it's gonna be a good ending. I know the beginning and end, but I don't know the middles and I don't know how to write the songs. I have like the song, like the running theme song that we'll keep reprising, but I don't, I only have like a line. That's it. Beth Demme: That's so cool. Do you need more than that right now? STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: No, no, yeah. Beth Demme: Who knows? STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Who knows when it will happen, but and I have, like I said, I have no idea how it will happen. But stay tuned. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: And now it's time for questions for reflection. These are questions based on today's show. Beth will read them and leave a little pause between each and you can pause the podcast and answer it to yourself, or find a PDF on our website at dlspod.us. And stay tuned to the end for slice of life. Beth Demme: Number one, what are your current dreams? Make a list. Number two, have you shared your dreams with anyone? Who did you share with? And if you haven't shared, why not? Number three, have some of your dreams come true. How does that feel? Number four, do you have dreams that haven't come true? Why? And number five, how do you react when someone shares a dream that isn't fully developed yet? Has this conversation made you reflect on your reaction in a different way? And now we want to move into a slice of life where we talk about what's happening now. So- Stephanie Kostopoulos: Well I think we need to timestamp then if we're talking about now, Beth. Beth Demme: So Today is September 25th 2020. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: It's not Halloween, you don't have to get all like Whoa... Beth Demme: Everything about 2020 is ominous. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: My book came out this year, don't even! Beth Demme: That's a good thing. That's a very good thing. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Oh, I thought of another dream. Beth Demme: You did? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes. I dream of having a really nice boom stand for our microphones. I hope that dream comes true one day. That is very specific and nerdy and no one will get that but... Beth Demme: That is very specific. And I don't know if it's a dream or a goal or an idea. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: They're all the same thing Beth, that is what we have established. Dream, goal, idea. It's all the same thing. Beth Demme: As someone who would benefit from the mic stand I hope that dream comes true for you. Although I'm really fine with the mic stands we have because I don't know the difference. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: It's like the what's the expensive car like it? It's like the Jaguar of... I don't know what's an expensive car? Beth Demme: A Bugatti. Stephanie Kostopoulos: It's like a Bugatti because that's not a weird word at all. Oh my gosh, we're gonna have to Google Bugatti. I've never heard of that. Beth Demme: It's an expensive car. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Okay, great. Yeah, well, like the mics are- Beth Demme: Way more expensive than a Jaguar. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Okay. Oh, I don't want a Jaguar either. I wanted a Mini Cooper actually, I wanted a Mini Cooper, I always dreamed of having a Mini Cooper and I got one. Beth Demme: And you got one. Boom. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Boom. Beth Demme: So we recently, actually I guess about a week ago we had a hurricane move through North Florida. So I wanted to talk about that. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: It was not fun. Beth Demme: It was not fun. And we were okay, we were like east of the storm- Stephanie Kostopoulos: We got the band's. Beth Demme: We got some bands from it. And I wanted to mention it because I have family that lives in Pensacola and they basically took a direct hit from it. I mean it wiped out a bridge and all sorts of stuff. But my mom was without running water for like five or six days. Running water. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: What? What'd she do? Did she have water? Beth Demme: She had a lot of bottled water and she had like some like big tanks of water. So part of her problem was not, it was not that the whole water system failed, they were under a boil water order for a time. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: This was Pensacola? Beth Demme: Yeah, in Pensacola, but she had two trees get knocked down by the storm. and it took out the water main to her house. And so she was having to go out with a wrench and like, turn the water on at the street so that she could go inside, take a shower, and then run back out and then turn the water off. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Oh my gosh. Beth Demme: So I'm so proud of her. Like she totally got through it and I'm so thankful for my brother. He lives in town and he came in and did what he could to reroute the water until they could get the trees out. Like you know, he's amazing and hands on and it was it was fantastic. But I was thinking about that because you have started doing author videos, and they're available on YouTube. But you did one like in the rain? STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Yes. Beth Demme: And it was as the hurricane was coming. Stephanie Kostopoulos: It was before we started getting the major bands. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: So it was like, I don't remember the date. But it was like the day that we had the most weather and I went out there because I love like rainy, not super stormy, but just like that rain. I love that. And so I wanted to go out there, really was debating because we were actually under a tornado watch. But there was really not major storms yet. And so I was like should I go out there and I was like, I'm gonna do it. So there was nothing major. It definitely was rainy but not like heavy at all. You can see it in the video. But I loved it. And then but later that day, oh my gosh, the bands were coming through. We were getting like moments of like just ridiculous rain and storms like the trees were blowing like crazy. I was like, I think trees are gonna fall down. Oh, no, this is not gonna be good. And it was just it was random throughout the day. It wasn't just like, it wasn't constant. And it was there was like really no warning of when we're getting a strong band. Beth Demme: Yeah. And the whole way that hurricane Sally happened, I mean, it was like, Oh, it's just gonna be a tropical storm. It might be a category one, and it's gonna go in at Louisiana. And then all of a sudden, you know, we woke up the next morning, it's like it's a category two, and it's going to hit, you know, Western Florida. Oh! STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Yeah. Because your mom probably would have come over here. Beth Demme: Yeah, my mom had just been here. And by the time she got home, they were under a tropical storm warning. And I was like, well, maybe you should come back. But she had things she needed to do. Like, that's where she lives. So that's where her life is. So yeah, it was just crazy how all of that happened. But if people want to find those author videos, what's the best ways for them to do that? STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: We'll put a link in the show notes. Beth Demme: Yeah. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Yeah. So there'll be a link down in your podcast app to our website, and it Will be on there. But it's on my web, it's on YouTube. If you Google Stephanie Kostopoulos which no one can spell so probably just the link will do well. Beth Demme: well in the rainy one, I really, I thought that the audio was really peaceful. The sound of the way that the rain falls in your woods. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Isn't that cool? Beth Demme: I agree. They're your woods. I just, I don't know. I just really thought that it was peaceful, I hope that people will look that up. Stephanie Kostopoulos: You know, Beth, I invited you to my woods today. What did you say? Beth Demme: Yeah, I said, thank you so much for inviting me. But no. Yeah, I don't need to be in the woods. I'm good. Thanks. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: Well, it was nice and peaceful and Mac enjoyed it. You know, I have this random thing that I just like, it's been a thing for the last two episodes, and I just thought I should talk about it because I've never really talked about this. I have psoriasis. And do you know what that is? Beth Demme: Yeah, but I didn't know you had it. STEPHANIE KOSTOPOULOS: I do. It's like really like not, a lot of people have it, it's like not a huge deal. But it's basically like you get like scaly kind of skin. Beth Demme: And it's itchy. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And so I first got it on the back of like my hair I guess, I can't really see it. It's like in my hairline but my dermatologist saw it and she's like, Oh, you have psoriasis. I was like- Beth Demme: Wait, what? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Offhandedly, Oh you have psoriasis, I was like, is that bad what I do? Beth Demme: And by the way, psoriasis starts with a P. What's up with that? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Oh I know, I also have to say in my house, because every time I get it confused with paralysis, which is completely different. So I have to like say it before, and as a dyslexic, you're just killing me here. So she's like, Oh, you have psoriasis, and I was like, so what do I do, she's like, Oh, it's not curable. It just comes and goes, I was like, Great. Thanks so much. Great. But I had noticed I used to get, I still do, but for a long time I've gotten like these like little like weird patches on my elbows. And it wasn't a huge deal, but they were kind of itchy and I always thought it was like just like a bug bite or something. It's psoriasis. Beth Demme: Wow. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And I started to get one on my palm right here. Beth Demme: Oh, I see it. Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes. And so last week I realized during the episode, I was like, itching it and it became like really, like, enlarged last week and I was like, and I realized after the episode I was like, oh no. Why did I do that? During today's episode, I peeled a part off of my hand. Beth Demme: Do you think it's like a nerve thing? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Yes. Beth Demme: Yes. Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And when you're stressed, it like gets worse. But what she told me and actually what helped last week is you can get steroids and stuff, I don't like to do that, she said a natural way that they used to solve it is with tar. And so they make this tar stuff that's 2% tar that you can buy and I've actually put it on and it helps. So I was just gonna say if you have psoriasis, you get it on Amazon. It's actually for psoriasis. It's like tar. And she says, they don't know what is in it that helps, but it does. And it's, she said, that it smells bad and it's messy, but if you want something more natural than steroids. And so I bought it and I was like, yeah, because it's not a huge deal. But it's like it does itch a little bit so I put it on there and it does help. So I just, I thought I should say that because I'm like, you know what, like, I don't want to be like embarrassed about it. I just want to like say it and I haven't said it out loud to anybody. And so I have psoriasis and I'm okay. And it's really not that bad. But I did, I have been picking my hand and I need to stop that because it's kind of like a nervous tic, I guess. Beth Demme: Yeah. Stephanie Kostopoulos: And it's gross. I'm not gonna lie. Beth Demme: But yeah, and the idea that you have to put tar on it, and they don't know why that works, I kind of love that because I always think of like, oh, the doctors know all the answers. They know everything right? Stephanie Kostopoulos: Oh yeah. They don't know anything at all. Beth Demme: But then it turns out like, oh, there's a lot that we just haven't figured out yet, and I'm okay with that. Stephanie Kostopoulos: I should probably wear gloves during the next episode. Because I honestly, I don't notice it, I don't notice me doing it during the day. But during the podcast, I have noticed and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm not nervous right now though by the way. I am like, I'm not nervous. Like I am when we have guests, I'm nervous because, you know, there's just a lot. But I'm not nervous right now, but I am like, I'm trying to be present and to like also just be conscious, like more conscious than I would in a regular conversation because I'm like, wanting to make sure we cover the points that we wanted to and I want to make sure we're not like going too much off topic. And if we do go off topic I want to try to be able to bring it back. So I'm like using my brain more than I would typically and so maybe that's where the, that's why it flares up on my hand during the episode. Beth Demme: This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcast. Thank you for joining us.
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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