Episode Summary
Steph and Beth are both Christians, though one prefers to call herself a Christ-follower. One goes to church weekly, one is comfortable not attending church regularly. They set out to discuss some of the most common clichés about Christians and end up talking about what irks them most about other Christians. The cliché Christian isn’t just a problem for those outside Christianity! Steph and Beth find that even as Christian insiders, they too worry about Christians who are overly judgmental, hypocritical, anti-LGBTQ+, and closed-minded. Listen in on an honest conversation that they admit makes them truly uncomfortable.
Show Notes
Steph’s Book
Sneak Peek at what it looked liked when Steph’s book arrived. Beth’s Blog: Ascension: Up, Up & Not So Far Away Questions for Reflection
Each episode we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. You might pause the podcast and answer them right then and there, but if you keep a journal (Steph and Beth both do), you might find one of these PDFs useful. Choose the orientation that fits best in your journal.
Podcast Transcript
Beth:
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast. Steph: Where we have honest conversations about things that make us different. I'm Steph! Beth: And I'm Beth. So Steph, what is our topic today? Steph: For our honest conversation today we are talking about the cliché Christian, Beth: The cliché Christian. So when someone introduces themselves to you or like you're meeting someone for the first time and they say that they're a Christian, what's your initial reaction to that? Steph: Well, I think we should probably start out by saying I do identify as a Christian. I would say, pastor Beth, what would you identify as? Beth: I also identify as a Christian and I say it that way. I say I'm a Christian. I mean I don't think I have ever, ever introduced myself that way, but if it were to come up in conversation, I would definitely identify myself as a Christian. You say it a little differently. Steph: I do actually. I'll also say I'm a Christian, but if I'm talking to somebody or really talking about my faith in any kind of way, I'll identify as a Christ follower, which is in my mind the exact same thing. To me when I say Christ follower, it takes the person a second to kind of adjust to that, that phrasing because they don't normally hear it that way. And I feel like when I say "Christ follower," it helps people not have the instant image they may have of Christianity. Steph: So you had asked me just a few seconds ago, um, what I think when someone says, you know, hi, I'm so and so, I'm a Christian, I go to Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah. When people say that I've, I feel bad saying this too, I like, I don't really talk about this too much, but when people say they're a Christian, I have a certain thought in my head that comes up and it's not a positive one, which is crazy because I am a Christ follower. I believe in those principles. But when I hear someone say they're a Christian, I instantly think they're probably very conservative in their views. They probably don't believe in loving everyone. Beth: Yeah, you're not alone in that because I find that I am instantly on guard when someone immediately wants me to know that they're a Christian. Now that I'm a pastor, I wonder are they saying that because they know I'm a pastor, but there is still this part of it that's like, well are they saying that because they want to set themselves above someone else? You know what, what is behind that type of immediate self-identification? And like you, you know, it's just not always a positive first reaction to that in my gut. What are some of the things that you think of when you hear it? Like how would you, how would you characterize that person in your own internal thought process? Steph: Well, I kind of feel like society is like really watered down Christianity and created a image of what Christianity is now, which I don't think is accurate, but I still, when someone identifies as a Christian, I still have the, these thoughts that run through my head. I think some of them would be, um, very politically conservative and trying to push their views on people through politics. Um, anti-gay, not loving and really focus on judging. Beth: So, judgmental? You would think of very judgmental? Someone who wants you to know right away that they're Christian, they might be judgmental. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right about Christianity being watered down. And also that there are a lot of diverse presentations of what Christianity is. So I, I struggle when someone who would stand on a street corner and hold up, you know, a sign that says God hates, God hates [fill in the blank], I think, oh, they think they're Christian and they're telling the world that they're out there because they're Christians and that is not at all what my faith is about. They don't represent my faith at all. Or someone who is anti-LGBTQ. That doesn't fit into my faith at all. This has been a big issue in the United Methodist Church where I serve. The debate has, has sort of boiled down, I think to this idea, this is a whole ‘nother topic probably, but you know, the, the real issue in the United Methodist Churches that we have a Book of Discipline that says "the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching." And I don't, I, that that language doesn't even make sense to me. First of all, the idea of it, of a person being incompatible, but what you see there is that they're not identifying it as a person, right? They're saying this "practice" and that. So we're on, we're on two different like wavelengths and we're having this conversation because I want to talk about the people and they want to talk about some sort of, um, an act that they dislike. So, so yeah, I do. I do understand why Christianity would be perceived as anti-gay because that is a part of even the denomination where I'm serving. Which we're actively working to change that about the denomination, but we're not the only ones. You know, that that's been an issue for a lot of churches for a long time. Steph: Yeah. I feel like for me, I as a Christian am called to love everyone and not judge who they are. When people say like it's as wrong, X, Y, and Z , who am I to say what's wrong? What's right? I mean it's, it's a huge discussion that people feel like they have a black and white answers and all I have an answer to is I'm called to love people. That's, that's what I try to do as a Christian is to love all types of people, to listen to all types of people and to be willing to be friends and have conversations with them. To talk to them in person. Beth: Yeah. And it's hard to have those sort of black and white hard rules without coming across as a hypocrite. And I think that that is a common, um, perception of, of Christians is that we are hypocritical people because we want to say, oh, I'm just going to worry about what someone else is doing or I'm just going to criticize how someone else is living instead of doing the more important work of looking at my own self. And even though that's in the Bible, right? Like don't worry about that speck in your, in your brother and sisters. I worry about the log in your own eye. Uh, we don't practice that very well. Steph: Do you have any like pre-conceived notions when someone says they're a Christian? Beth: I worry that they're going to be judgmental. I worry about how they align their political views from a faith standpoint because I grew up in the 80s and, and the Religious Right? That's really when it came into its full movement I guess. So since at least the 1980s a lot of people have associated Christianity with being a member of a specific political party. I don't think that's done us any favors in terms of how we're perceived. There's also an element within Christianity where the focus is very much about "getting saved." Steph: Can you explain what that means specifically for people that might not understand? Beth: Yeah, well I think different denominations and non-denominational groups probably handle it differently, but the most common or the, the, the sort of typical way that this happens is there'll be a church service or there will be an event and at the end they will say, "okay, the altar is open. If you want to accept Jesus Christ into your life, come down to the front and we will pray with you." And when you get to the front, they will pray with you. Um, what we call the Roman Road. "Roman," because there's this book in the Bible called Romans and there's this sort of, you can sort of move through Romans and you can pray this particular prayer with someone. And, and the heart of the prayer is so good. It is, it is what you and I know from the 12-steps. It is, there's a big God and it's not me and I and I want God's help with my life and I want to stop trying to pretend like I'm in control of everything and like planetary alignment relies on me. Right? But that's really the heart of it is that you recognize you're not in control. The problem with those sorts of opportunities is that they sometimes are not followed up on. And so it becomes like this one and done sort of approach to faith, which really short circuits what can be a very beautiful relationship with God. Beth: So in the United Methodist Church, and I, I, I'd probably talk about that a lot, but that's just because that's my, my frame of reference, right? We would say that there's prevenient grace, which means that God is always, always, always reaching out for everyone. There isn't anyone who's ever been born who God was not reaching out for. And that there comes a point when you realize, "Oh, God has reaching out for me. There's a big God and it's not me." And that at that moment you move from prevenient grace to justifying grace and then you say, you know, God, I really, I, I want to live into who you created me to be. I want to be the best me I can be or I want to be the most faithful me. There can be some different ways that you can say it. There's not like a formula to this and at that point you can move in to sanctifying grace where God is going to be actively working on you to help you be different. You move on eventually to glorifying grace, which is in the afterlife. Steph: Are you referring to people being accepting Christ and then going through those stages or those stages are the stages to accepting Christ? Beth: Those stages are before you would identify yourself as a Christian or a Christ follower, but then they continue so there isn't, it's not a one and done approach to faith because we know that you have to always, this is a relationship. What you're really doing is you're entering into a relationship with God and you can't be in a relationship with someone you don't know. And you can't be in a relationship with somebody you don't spend any time with. And you can't be in a relationship with someone you don't ever talk to. And so those are essential to really becoming who you were created to be. Steph: It's almost like when churches do their altar call to save the people that have accepted Christ, yet it's almost like this is your first date and you're marrying the person that you just had a first date-- Beth: --on the first date, yeah, that's interesting. Steph: --on the first date. Yeah. And but what you're really talking about to develop that relationship before you just say, yeah, I want to, I accept Christ. You want to be able to mature that relationship and know who this is. And that's how you have a long lasting connection, um, with God. Is that what it is? Beth: Yeah, and I think for some, for some folks it's very much about a ticket to heaven. And for me, my faith is much more about present right now. How am I experiencing God right now in this moment? And I just trust God with the afterlife. I'm not, I'm not worried about that. I'm not trying to earn a specific anything. I just am wanting to be in relationship with God right now. So being saved is not the same thing to me, that it might be to someone else. Now I know people for whom that has been extremely meaningful. And so I don't want it to sound like I'm minimizing it or belittling it. I think that that is at its best when it's a starting point and not an ending point. And when it's the starting point to a relationship and not just a checkbox. Steph: Well that's actually how I became a Christian is I was in "big church" as we call it, 'cause I was six years old and I heard the pastor talk about accepting Christ. And I went to my bedroom that night and I prayed that prayer and it was something very personal to me and very--and it, and it continued to be that way. I didn't really, I didn't go out boasting like, Oh, well I've accepted Christ. You know, it was something very personal. My mom never even knew the story until I was in high school. I think because I wrote, uh, wrote a short story about it for school. She's like, I didn't know any of this. So I was like, you know, it's personal. It's something that I did for me. And it wasn't to be able to go around and be like, "I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian!" It was for, it was always been a very personal relationship. Um, so I agree. I think those can be very impactful moments in churches, but I see them overused in especially certain denominations. When I go to other churches, I, I just get really frustrated with these altar call moments and then seeing all these people go up to the altar. And then I, I'm concerned because what is the, uh, what's the continuing plan? What's the journey continue to look like for these people? And I don't know. I don't know. Um, what the, what the churches do for, um, for people that accept Christ, you know, in the altar call what the next steps are. And maybe there are churches that have a, a great plan and help people continue that relationship. But, and for people I know who have had these kind of altar call moments, that was a moment and then it was over and there was nothing that really continued to mature that relationship. Beth: Another thing about that particular approach that worries me is that when it's not, when it's not done well, it can be presented as, okay, you've reached this point where you know that you want your life to be different. You're, you're in a low point. You're, you're struggling with an addiction for example, and you know that you cannot fight this on your own. And so, come up and say a prayer and everything will be fixed. Steph: Yeah, exactly. Magic God. Beth: Right, right. But, but God isn't a magician and God isn't, doesn't work that way. God is supernatural and God is miraculous. And, and I'm sure that there are examples of that happening, but it is more typical for God to journey with someone as they do the emotional work they need to do, deal with what they need to deal with, and that change is produced in that way. Steph: I have a question for you, Beth. Beth: Sure. Steph: Have you ever questioned your faith? Beth: I have questioned my faith! I have questioned the existence of God. I have. I have questioned the validity of Jesus. I've, I've walked through all of that and I wouldn't be surprised if I walked through that again. I have heard other people talk about their, their journey through doubt as a time when they felt like God was absent from them. I have not experienced that. I have never felt like God was absent from me. Even in my moments of doubt, I still had this sense of God's presence somehow, which then transforms my doubt into a question about what I believe and why I believe what I believe. And that is a healthy part of a maturing faith. And it's not anything for people to be scared of. And if someone were to come to me in my role as a pastor and say that they weren't sure that God existed, I, I would invite that conversation. I would not, um, ridicule them or minimize that or tell them that they had to believe a certain thing or a certain way. I would, I would just encourage them to keep thinking about it. And if they got to a point where they could pray about it, I would encourage them to pray about it. So yeah, I think doubt is normal and healthy. And really doubt is not the absence of faith. Really, certainty is the absence of faith because if you're certain about something, you don't have to have any faith in it. It just is. Steph: I think you brought up a really good point when you said, um, you know, if someone came to you and said they had doubt, you allow open that conversation. And that's something that I think of with a, a cliché Christian is afraid to have a conversation about something that they already have an opinion on. To me, I, you know, I might be 100% one way, but I'm not afraid to talk about it with somebody and to be open, open my mind to other possibilities. That doesn't mean it's going to change anything. I think me and you have different views on certain things and we can have a conversation about it. It doesn't mean it's going to change anything, but I think there's something really healthy about being able to talk about, well maybe there's not a God or maybe this, maybe that, I mean so many different things, uh, that people I find in my life are just, are afraid to even bring up the subject like a new one. We'll talk about that. Beth: Yeah. And the idea that God might be offended if it's brought up or that God might be turned off or that God might reject us. You know, it even says in the Psalms, and I try not to be someone who like throws Bible verses that people, but I'm just going to tell you that in Psalm 139 it says, even if I go to the depths of Sheol, which is the underworld, right? Even if I go where you're not supposed to be, even if I go there, God, you can find me. So I don't think that we need to be afraid to have those conversations. Steph: Well, I've definitely questioned my faith. There's cults out there that call themselves Christians and there are so many denominations out there and they all call themselves Christians and that is what watered down that term question. I've questioned like, well, is this all made up? In this in my mind? Am I in a cult? Like I've played that game over and over my head and I finally have come to the conclusion that if I'm wrong, that's okay. Because I feel like when I believe in a higher power, I have a better life and I, my life is better here on earth. And that's what ultimately I always get to when I, when I have these questions. But I do continue to have them. And I do think, you know, maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I am, but this is the, the road I've decided to stay on because it, it makes me better when I'm on it. Beth: Now, one thing that you and I don't agree on probably when it comes to this question of Cliché Christianity is the importance of having a church home, a church family. So Steph, where are you going to church these days? Steph: Wow. Um, yeah, that's, I think that's another cliché is that you're a Christian if you go to church, or-- Beth: That's fair. That's fair. I don't think that makes you "more" Christian. Steph: Yeah, so I think that's usually, you know, if somebody says, if I do identify as a Christian, depending on the conversation, the next question is where do you go to church? And I believe there is an importance in community, just general community as a human, we need community. Um, but specific Christian community is important. I mean, it's in the Bible. It's a very important part. And people usually find Christian community in churches on Sunday morning. I don't find that. I used to work at a church. I've been to many different churches. I've tried to find a church locally that I really connected to, but I haven't found it. And I don't feel less than, not going to church and I don't try to judge myself or you know, "Oh, you're a Christian, you should be going to church." I don't think that that makes me any less or more of a Christian. For me, being a Christ follower is about my relationship with God. And that's something that I can have anywhere. And I have it when I'm in the, in the woods, I feel the most connected to God. When I'm, uh, surrounded by the beauty that he made is that's when I truly connect. Singing a song with people around me isn't what connects me. Beth: So do you think that it's the, the worship service, because we do tend to be fairly formulaic in Christian churches in terms of how we organize our worship services. I mean, some are very ritualized about it and there's um, you know, a prescribed liturgy and there's a prescribed Order of Worship that never changes and, and others are less prescribed about it. But we sort of follow the pattern of there's going to be song, there's going to be prayer, there's going to be a sermon, which is, in essence, a lecture. There will be Bible reading, you know, and that'll, it'll be this repetitive cycle of these things. Do you think that's what doesn't connect for you? Steph: It's when you say lecture, ‘cause last time I was in a church service, I was like, Oh, this reminds me of college. Beth: Yeah, well, it is that model, yeah. Steph: Like a college class. Yeah. Um, I want to be careful. I don't want to bash churches. I think church, there are a lot of churches out there and a lot of them do a lot of good and people find, find what they need in them. But I also don't think it's an answer for everyone. So for me, yeah there's a formula to a service. And um, sometimes I feel like I get something out of it. But a lot of times I just feel like I'm going because I, I'm supposed to go to church. And when I realized that that was part of what I was doing, that's when I started to question and say, why am I getting anything out of the service? I get so much more out of just talking with my friends and having conversations with you. I, I get more out of that kind of community then sitting with people I don't know and listening to someone talk about the Bible. I would love to see churches evolve and meet people where they're at. That was something else I've noticed about churches is are their numbers are down and people aren't going. Millennials aren't going, uh, like the generation before was going. And-- Beth: Yes, every pastor in America is reminded of that constantly! Steph: Okay, good, so it's accurate! Beth: You should see my email inbox. Where are the Millennials? Where are the Generation Y? Where are they? How can we find them? How can we adapt ourselves so that they'll think we're interesting? Steph: Yeah. And I think it's meeting them where they're at. I mean going to coffee shops, you know, having, we were talking the other day about how people bring their, having people bring their dog to church. I love that idea. Beth: Yes, I'm going to find a way to make that happen. Steph: I love it! I mean, meet people where they're at and find the things that they are into now. I love my dog. You want to have something where I can bring my dog and we can hang out and have a service. I'm all about it. Meet people where they're at and find out what their needs are now before telling them what their needs are. Beth: I agree with you. I think that it needs to be relational and that for a long time churches have existed on what we call an Attractional Model, where we try to be this entity that attracts people to us and we're in a transition time now where we realize that instead of expecting people to come to us, we need to be out in the community building friendships and building relationships that then naturally develop into questions about faith. Steph: Well, I've heard a lot of people my age, I'm 33, so a lot of people my age grew up going to churches and don't go to church anymore. And I think part of that is that church is the same. Church hasn't evolved with society. Just as we were saying, the clichés we think of a Christian is what I think of. I'm going to a church, I think, oh, the pastor's going to, if they talk politics are going to be very conservative if they even bring up, well they probably won't even bring up, you know, LGBTQ+, what is it? Beth: Yeah. LGBTQ. You can say LGBTQIA+. But I just say LGBTQ+. Steph: Okay, plus. Beth: It's an issue of personhood. All of those letters represent, um, a form of personhood. Steph: Okay. And I think, well just right there, I think there's people that are like, it's too much. It's too confusing. I don't want to go there. The Bible says it's wrong. Just leave it at that. Beth: But what if the Bible doesn't say that? Steph: Well, I think that's another episode. But, I agree with you as you know, and that's an episode we can talk about. We don't want to completely give me, everyone's like, and we're done listening by the way. I just gotta say this is super nerve wracking talking about this. Like being honest, as much as we wrote that as our, like our mission statement, like we're having honest conversations, it's real nerve wracking and I'm real like hesitant to say these things. I truly want to say these things because I believe them. But being out there... Beth: Do you feel like I'm putting you on the spot by asking you about? Steph: No, not at all. No, not at all. I, I just feel like this is, this is for real. This is like timestamped done. It's out there. Beth: So what does your Sunday morning look like? Steph: It looks like my Saturday morning that I don't, to me Sunday morning is not like a, a sacred special day. I experience God on every day. So Sunday isn't like a special day for me. Yeah. Beth: So Sunday, historically Sunday is the day when a Christian churches meet because it was the day of the resurrection and because it was the first day of the week Steph: What is "The Resurrection," Beth? Beth: So the resurrection is, uh, Jesus Christ was crucified. He was in the tomb for three days and then he resurrected and came, came to his disciples in a resurrected form, which was material and human. He could eat, they could touch him. He remained in his resurrected form for about 40 days, and then he ascended to heaven. And I just wrote a blog post on this called "Ascension-- Steph: Oh, we'll put a link in the show notes! Beth: "Up, Up And Not So Far Away" because in the ascension, although we think of it as, and we say he, that Jesus Christ has ascended. And then he now sits at the right hand of the Father, that's meant to indicate that he is in his rightful place as part of the Godhead, rather than like a place you could plug your GPS to be like, hey, I need to get to where it is that Jesus is sitting at the right hand. So, so the resurrection was on a Sunday morning that's when the women went to the tomb and found it empty and came back and told the male disciples what had happened. Early Christians wanted to start their week then by celebrating that resurrection event. So the first Christians were, were Jewish, were devout Jewish people and they had their Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday night. And they would go to Jewish synagogue services-- well, they weren't synagogues then--actually that came a little bit later. But they would go to Jewish worship services, let's say at the Temple and that would be their Friday night worship as part of Sabbath. And then Sunday morning they would celebrate as well, celebrate the resurrection. So today I as a Christian, start my week with my Sunday morning worship and I feel like it prepares me for the week ahead. Sometimes people will talk about Sunday as a sabbath time, as someone who works on Sunday, it's not my sabbath, but, but it's still, I feel like puts me in the right frame of mind for the rest of the week that I carve out that hour and make it not about me. So let me ask you something. Was there a time when you felt guilty about not being in church every single Sunday? The reason I'm asking is I wonder about the baggage that the church lays on people without even realizing it because I don't think that faith should be an exercise in guilt. But I think sometimes it is. Steph: When I lived in Orlando, I didn't go to church regularly. I tried. I went with some friends trying to a church and I went to, you know, I usually would go to church three to five times to see, you know, how I felt about it and never felt one that I super connected to. And then, you know, I was working weekends, so it was easy to just stop the search for a church. And I never like consciously was not going to church on Sundays. I was not. And I wasn't consciously like, oh, I need to be looking or I'm doing. Because I was working those days, I didn't put a lot of thought into it because I have to work. That's, that's it. So there's no, there's no discussion needed. But when I moved-- Beth: That one day a week when church happens, you were working? Steph: Yeah. Beth: Which is, um, something important for me to think about as someone who does work in, in church and wants to serve people through the church. If I only limit it to one day a week, I'm limiting the opportunity for people to interact. Steph: Correct. Yeah. And in like we've talked about church is community, Christian community, and that can happen anywhere, anytime, any place. So a community, Christian community could be having dinner on a Wednesday night somewhere, meeting people where they're at is, is part of that. So when I moved to Tallahassee, I worked for a church for two and a half years. And so I went regularly, obviously. And um, after I left the church, uh, working for the church, I tried finding another church that I felt connected to and I never really felt connected. And so I don't remember when it's, how long it's been, but uh, at the beginning I did feel like a push to I need to find a church. I need to find a church and never really felt connected. Eventually I was just like, you know, I keep saying I need to, but I haven't found a found it out there and I'm getting frustrated and so maybe I need to take a break. And that's pretty much what I've been doing is, you know, taking a break, not, but also knowing that I'm not going to church on Sundays and I've really come around to: that's okay. And it doesn't mean I'm any less than. It doesn't mean that I can't call myself a Christ follower. It just means that I've decided that at this time of my life I haven't found a church that I, that I feel connected to 'cause for me or when I was going to church regularly, I was involved. And that, for me, serving is a huge part of being in a church is serving that church and being part of the community. That's how I feel a part of the community is serving. I haven't yet felt it, found that in a church locally and so I'm okay not going to church and I don't feel less than. Beth: So one of the things that's interesting is that between the two of us, you have probably visited more churches and had more varied worship experiences than me even though I have been in church every Sunday I think for most of my life. But because you did take time to go and visit and to visit places repeatedly and to try to seek out community there. Um, that's just an interesting realization. The other thing that I wanted to say is when it comes to Christian community, part of the reason that you're, that I'm going to continue to sort of push you on this ... even as you look at me across our wonderful microphone stand... Steph: I just don't want to talk over you because that's annoying for people. So go ahead and talk. Beth: I think that there's a Christian community that admittedly you have not found yet, but that there is a Christian community that needs you. And that you, that your gifts are needed there and that your perspective is needed there. And so it's like there's a community, a Christian community here that's missing something because you're not a part of it. And community is--when it's healthy and when it's at its best--community is a place where people sharpen each other and make each other better and push each other to, to study more and to have more honest conversations. And you know, one of the things that I think churches don't do well, but that, um, I feel like I'm constantly saying in my own context is, "Church is a place where people should talk about politics!" Not because I think that churches should be promoting candidates or something like that. But if we as a covenant community under the grace of God, which is a lot of church language, I know, I'm sorry, but if we as a covenant community under the grace of God, can't talk about politics then who can talk about politics, right? Again, healthy community is a place where you are pushed to think about things differently and where you're pushed to study more and a place where your gifts fully come into your own awareness. Steph: I would agree with you. I am not against finding a Christian community. I definitely would be open to it if it, if it, I'm not actively seeking it, but if there was something that I found that I felt connected to, I would definitely pursue it. So I'm not, you know, I try not to say like any definite statements in my life because I have no idea. I mean, one definite statement I said years ago was I had never work for myself. Well, we are now sitting in my office where I work for myself. Yeah. So, uh, I don't want to ever say, I'm not gonna say, Oh, church is for no one. I'm not going to judge. I don't know. That's not okay because right now I'm not attending and I don't feel that it's necessary. But you know what Beth, I've heard that you are possibly going to be a at a church that's close to me and I'll know if we can announce that, but I am definitely going to be attending and uh, trying out to your church because it's Beth Demme-- Beth: Effective August 1st I'll be serving as an Associate Pastor at good Samaritan United Methodist Church in Tallahassee, Florida! Steph: Woo hoo! Yay! Beth: I am really excited. Steph: Yeah, that is exciting. Beth: I love, love, love the church where I serve now. I love the people there and I am equally excited about this new opportunity to serve in a different context. Steph: Well, I will be attending and I will give you my review of what I think of it and how connected I feel. Beth: Okay. Maybe I'll pick the Sunday you should come first. Steph: I'm coming your first Sunday. I'll be there. Beth: All right. All right. Steph: I'll bring Mac. I can bring dogs, right? Beth: No, not yet. Steph: Oh No. Oh No. Beth: I'm gonna work on a, on a pet friendly service. People feel connected to their pets. And church is a place where we hope that people feel connection. So... Steph: Well Beth, I'm really glad we got to announce your news cause I'm super excited about that. Beth: Thanks! Steph: And I have a little news. I was going to, maybe share Beth: I know! And I'm so excited about this too and we are, we're going to put pictures right? Can we put a picture of this in the show notes? Steph: Uh, I don't know if you can put, well we'll have a picture on a website. Okay. Yeah, that will be linked in the show notes. That was Mac. She did a little shake as a dog that likes to do. So the announcement is: I have mentioned that I wrote a book and it will be in bookstores January of 2020 but I actually have some copies now that Beth: They finally came! I'm so excited! Steph: They came! So I am going to be selling them on my website and if you are someone local, um, you can email me and we can figure out a way to locally pick it up if you want to do that. But I have copies! So you can go to my website, Stephaniekostopolous.com. And then we'll have a link in the show notes and you can get the book and it's called Discovering My Scars. Beth: And are you doing something special for the first people who order? Steph: Yes. So if you order the book now you will get a wooden bookmark that I've designed and not super cool. I was like, I got to do what is awesome. Beth: It's really awesome. Steph: And you can also have it signed if you want. Uh, there's a place where you can put your name and I will sign it to you. Steph: We have, we have a question that we wanted to ask you. We have a voicemail number that you can call in and you can answer the question. We just want to hear from you. And I am so sorry that's my dog. But if you call the voicemail number, um, Beth: Mac, listen Mac, you're going to have to learn to use the phone if you want to be on the podcast. Steph: Yeah, exactly. Beth: You've gotta dial the number with your pretty little purple paws. Steph: And the number is (850) 270-3308. The voicemail might have a little guest in that as well. So you can even call just to listen to the voicemail cause it's kind of funny. The question, Beth, what is it? Beth: Where do you listen to this podcast? Where are you listening to the show? Where, where are you connecting with these honest conversations? Steph: I will tell you when I listed to the show, after I've edited it, I do listen to the full show again. But I listen to it in the car. Beth: Me too! Steph: On the way to Starbucks. Beth: Yeah, me too. I listen to it in the car or the other place that I listen to it is when I'm doing laundry. Because I hate doing laundry. It's the worst. Can we do a show about that? About how much I hate doing laundry? Steph: And then about how you get your, um, towels... Beth: Sometimes I don't wash my own towels is what she's referring to. Steph: What do you call that? I didn't even know what you call that. You have a laundry service. Beth: A laundry service. Steph: You have a laundry service Wash your towels. Beth: Yeah. Sometimes Steph: We're going to have to take a poll. How many people think that towels are the easiest thing to wash? I do. I do. Steph: Listen, if you are going to send something out for a stranger to wash, are you going to send your unmentionables? Or, are you going to send the heavy bulky towels that are annoying to try to fold? Steph: I would send my underwear! Beth turned red. Beth: Those are the unmentionables. But also I'm doing laundry for four people. Which is also another issue because I should probably have trained people in my house to do their own laundry. Add it to the list of things I could have done better as a mom. Steph: That sounds like an episode waiting to happen. Steph: As always, we want to end our episode with some Questions For Reflection. So these are some questions that refer to today's show that you are welcome to answer out loud to yourself. Write in a journal. We'll have a link to them on our website in the show notes. And Beth is going to read them leaving a little pause between each one and after that we'll be done. If you don't want to answer them, we'll see you next time. Beth: Questions for reflection? What is your initial reaction? Your internal reaction when someone says they're a Christian? If you would, describe yourself as a Christ follower. Do the stereotypes about Christianity make you hesitant to tell people? Have you ever had an experience with a Christian that left you feeling offended? What draws you to church and or pushes you away? Where do you find meaningful community? Is it church, a coffee shop, walking your dog with your friend? What does meaningful community look like for you? Steph: This has been the Discovering Our scars Podcast. Thanks for joining us.
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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