Episode Summary
What is the difference between anger and rage? Steph and Beth have both struggled with anger and rage. In this episode they explore what it was like at its worst. They discuss how rage manifested itself as anger plus a destructive action or behavior. Steph took it out on herself and Beth took it out on her kids. This episode’s honest conversation also leads them to discover an important link in their individual struggles—rage was worse when life felt out of control. They also both found that unforgiveness was holding them back and feelings they thought could be denied or managed just waited and festered.
Listen to what they’ve learned over the years and how it is that neither of them struggles with rage these days. Listen in as they explore what healthy coping mechanisms have replaced #ragebursts. They also delve into the idea that hurting others is more socially acceptable than hurting yourself. Steph was sent to a mental hospital for hurting herself. What would have happened if she had hurt the person she was actually mad at? Show NotesQuestions for Reflection
Each episode we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. You might pause the podcast and answer them right then and there, but if you keep a journal (Steph and Beth both do) you might want to use one of these PDFs. Choose the orientation that fits best in your journal.
Podcast Transcript
Beth: Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast,
Steph: Where we have honest conversations about things that make us different. I'm Steph. Beth: And I'm Beth. Steph: I've been in recovery for 13 plus years and recently wrote a book discovering my scars about my mental health struggles, experiences and faith. Beth: I was a lawyer, but now I'm a pastor and I'm all about self-awareness and being emotionally healthy because I know what it's like to have neither. So what are we talking about today, Steph? Steph: Well today Beth, we are talking about a subject that's actually inspired by the first chapter of my book and the subject of today is rage and all that goes along with it. Beth: You know, I think it would be good to get started actually by having you read just that first paragraph of your book. This first few lines to help us really get the feel of it. Steph: All right, well I can do that. Beth, are you ready? Beth: I'm ready. Excited. I'm excited. Steph: So this is Chapter One, which is called 12 hours and it's from my book Discovering My Scars. "The rage grew. I couldn't take having my world turned completely upside down. When I lived with my parents home was a place of peace and calm. Now in my college dorm with three random roommates, I couldn't find that anymore. Anywhere. I had to call another roommate meeting because AJ had eaten my food again. She disrespected me again. Her actions made me feel unsafe and unsettled in my own home.” Beth: So you say they're the rage grew. What's the difference you think between rage and anger? Steph: That is a good question because anger is actually something I struggle with. That's a kind of a biological thing that I've struggled with. I have a very short temper, but I would think rage is anger plus, plus like a destructive action. So for me, I used to struggle with Non-Suicidal Self-Injury, which I call NSSI because that's a mouth-load. When I got angry, I would take out that anger on myself. That's what turned into rages. Anger plus Non-Suicidal Self-Injury. Beth: That makes sense to me. That rage is anger plus, like anger + destructive action. Because actually as a mom, especially when my kids were toddlers, I really struggled with anger. But I would define it as rage because it was anger and then yelling, you know, just really out of control. My face would turn red, I would be screaming. There were times I didn't even know what I was saying. So rage is something more than just anger, anger plus a destructive action. But you're destructive action wasn't against someone else. You didn't want to hurt someone else. So you hurt yourself instead. Is that sort of the... Steph: Yeah, I would say back when I started college, actually I just, I was very depressed and I just had so many emotions I didn't understand. And I would get angry at, you know, the drop of a hat. At anything, at anything emotional. I just didn't know how to deal with those emotions. And I would hurt myself, and I would use Non-Suicidal Self-Injury to do that. When I would get angry and be super emotional, I would just have all of this, this pent up feelings inside and I, and I had to get it out. And so what I would do is I would punch a punching bag in my bedroom for about 10 minutes and then there was still this, there was less of the intensity inside, but there was still, I needed a release. And in my head I could have punched someone, but ... Beth: Well, let me stop you there because I'm curious, when did you start using the punching bag as a coping mechanism? To start to let the bag absorb some of your anger? When did that start? Steph: It started—I can't remember when I got that, but I want to say—probably towards the end of high school, early college is when I just started using it to get my anger out. A little while after that that I started adding NSSI to that to help relieve the intense emotions inside. Beth: So do you think as you reflect on it, do you think it was sent up feelings, right? That that caused an angry reaction and then you didn't want to hurt someone else? So you first took it out on the punching bag and then there was still a need for an additional way to cope with the emotions that were left and that's when you turned to NSSI. Steph: Yeah. So I would, I would just have this intense, this intense feeling inside that I needed to get out. And that's the punching bag. And then there was these emotions that I didn't know how to handle and how to take care of and my brain told me to use NSSI as my coping mechanism. And that's what I turned to for two plus years. I was living in the dark, not sharing that with anyone. And NSSI really has is, is a misunderstood. I don't know how you can't understand it really. It's, it's a tough thing to really kind of wrap your head around. But uh, the big thing about it is it's not for attention seeking. It's not for other people to know about. It's a very personal thing. By using NSSI, I was able to see, see physically this is what hurts on my body. This is, this is where the pain is. Beth: So when my kids were toddlers and I was really coming to terms with how much of my life was out of control because that's what toddlers do to you. I would much rather parent teenagers, then toddlers. So as things were, were really out of control for the first time in my life, I had been able to really manage things until then, and I wasn't practicing law anymore, so I didn't have that outlet, that emotional outlet, and I was home with them all the time. I coped with these pent up feelings by yelling, which was destructive behavior. It hurt me, it hurt them. There's a lot of grace in that because now they're teenagers and they don't really remember it, but it was certainly destructive. It seems to me that with the Non-Suicidal Self-Injury, you were being careful not to be destructive to someone else. You were putting all of that on yourself. Do I have that right? Steph: It was emotions I had to deal with and that's the way I found to do it. Beth: The other thing about being a mom who yells and they're actually a lot of books about this and it's really not okay to be a mom who yells. That's what everyone will tell you. And I, I sort of feel that way too. But the, the thing about it is it's also a way to deflect. Right? That I, I'm angry because of what someone else has done. And then it turns out when you really start to unpack your junk that, oh no, I'm angry because I have these feelings I haven't dealt with or I haven't dealt with this situation that happened a long time ago. Or you know, as you start to kind of unpack it, you can find a healthier way to release those emotions without deflecting or blaming someone else. That's the thing about NSSI. You never blame anyone else. You're taking it all in on yourself. You are yelling at yourself. Steph: That's true. Obviously at the time I didn't understand what it was, why I was doing it. It was something that I didn't make a conscious decision. This is how I'm going to cope with life. It was something that kind of like biologically just started my brain thought this makes sense. You need to do this. It wasn't till years and years later where I actually realized where that, why, why that hole was there, why that those intense anger feelings were there. And it was, I learned about abuse that happened to me when I was two years old. I didn't learn about that until just a couple of years ago. So that's actually where my NSSI comes from and a lot of research has been done about people that cope with NSSI typically have some kind of abuse in their, in their past, sexual abuse. And I had known that I had read that like on Google, I'd Google search like, why do I deal with NSSI? Because I was dealing with that alone, I was hiding it. No one knew about it and I wasn't going to share it with anyone because you know, it's crazy. Like I don't want to be the person that people like, oh, she, she hurts herself. Oh, she needs to be locked up. Like I was scared of all of those things. But I had Googled that. Sexual abuse was a reason and I was always like, oh no, that didn't happen. I don't remember that happening. That didn't happen to me. No, no. I always dismissed it very quickly because I was not ready to approach that into really examine if that was what had happened. And it was finally when I had gone through more counseling, when I had spent months working on my issues, that I finally turned to God and I said, why? Why do I still deal with NSSI? Why is this still my coping mechanism? I know it's wrong. I know it's not healthy. I know it's not helping me. It's just satisfying me for a moment. Really. At that point, it wasn't even satisfying for long at all. And that's when I learned about the abuse that I had repressed and pushed down and was out of my brain space. But it was fully part of my life and I had no idea until I was able to be open and say I'm ready for whatever truth is out there. And now looking back, I can see the connections of, you know, why a young, young girl would have all these emotions that she doesn't know what to do with. , now I see it was all those things that had been repressed and then I wasn't conscious of that I was dealing with, but not dealing with because I didn't know they were there. But I, I'm curious about your, your rage when you were yelling at your kids. Like where did that come from? Why did you ever find out what that, what that connection was? Beth: Yeah. Uh, I can't remember exactly how old the kids were. I feel like they were, I think Hannah was about a year and a half old and Peter was about four and one day my husband came home and I said, "I thought I was going to hurt the kids today and I think you should probably leave me because you deserve a better wife. And they deserve a better mom. Somebody who's not angry all the time." Because I just thought it was who I was. I just thought, oh, this is just who I am. I'm an angry person. I'm awful. I'm terrible. And so he, this was, this was a few years ago, and so he actually got out the phone book. It's this book that has like phone numbers in it for people you can call when you need something... Steph: Whoa, cool invention. Beth: Yeah. It's sort of litter now cause they just drop them on the end of the driveway. So Steve got the phone book and opened it to therapists and he was like, I'm glad that you recognize that you need help. And I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, yeah, I've seen you be angry. I know that this is, uh, a struggle for you. And so I started treating with a counselor. It was really interesting because I really didn't know anything about therapy or counseling. And, and the very first session she said, I don't want to talk about you. I want you to tell me about how your parents were raised. Which I thought was on the one hand, I sort of thought it was a waste of time, but on the other hand, especially now as I think back on it, it was really smart because I didn't have to dive right into my stuff, right? Like I got to just talk about what I knew about my grandparents and what I knew about what it was like for my parents when they were growing up. So we sort of broke the ice that way. And then as she and I continued to meet regularly, multiple times a week in the beginning, I realized that I was, I had never dealt with grief. When I was 13 my oldest brother died in a really terrible way. And so I had never dealt with the grief of that. And it was sitting there waiting for me. And when my kids would do things that were perfectly age appropriate for toddlers, but made me feel like things were out of control, that sense of: Things are out of control. Everything is going to go wrong. Somebody is going to die. Steph: Wow. Beth: So it was, it was, yeah. I was putting all of this crazy emotional pressure on these poor, wonderful little beings. Right. Of course they should be carefree toddlers and of course they're not going to be controllable. And of course, you know, they're not actually trying to manipulate me even though it sort of that way sometimes. Steph: They might have a little, Beth: Maybe a little. Maybe. Once I actually was able to name that and work on it and deal with it and having a safe space to have every feeling. Right? To be angry that it had happened. To be angry at my brother because he had not taken good care of himself, he had not put himself in a safe place. To be, to be angry at, at everyone and anyone who was part of my life at that time, those feelings dissipated. And I think I had avoided them for so long because I was worried that if I dwelled on them or thought about them or worked on them, that they would just get bigger. But it turns out that when you work on them, they get smaller. And so they had just waited for me. The students had just waited for me and it had gone from being a little seed to being this really, I mean I sort of visualize it actually is like a tumor. You know, that was just inside and it had to come out. It had to come out and it came out through yelling. And I think that having practiced law, I think there was a lot of outlet in that that I didn't realize until I didn't have it anymore. And so not having that outlet combined with being home full time with my kids who were toddlers, you know, that it was, all of that kind of came together to force me to work on those hidden issues. Steph: So what exactly in therapy do you have any advice like what you did specifically in therapy that really helped to deal with those issues? Beth: I spent a lot of time crying. I think tears are very healing. Steph: Crying is the best. I learned that in therapy. Beth: Definitely think we should all be good at crying and Steph: Allow ourselves to cry. Beth: Yes! Steph: It's cleansing. It literally like when it rains, it cleanses the earth. When we, when our eyes rain, it cleanses us. Beth: Yes. There was a lot of value in talking things through multiple times and also learning that there were layers. So I would think, okay, we talked about that last week. I'm all better. Don't have to think about that anymore. Oh No. Yeah. You have to go back to it again and again and again. And each time it gets smaller and smaller and smaller and ... Steph: Easier... Beth: And easier! And so one of the things that I learned is if I, if I was trying to express an idea and suddenly tears came, well, that's an indication that there are emotions there. Right? That need to be addressed. Not Hidden. I don't have to be afraid of my feelings. There's not something wrong with me because I have feelings. Just deal with it. Acknowledge it, make a healthy space for it and then it won't control you. Steph: Yeah. I would completely echo all of that. I've been in therapy for the 13 plus years. And that's the biggest thing I've learned too, is just talking gets it out. It gets it out. I mean some things so simple, I mean it's, it's almost too simple. You're like, no, no, there's gotta be some like medication and some of like stand on my head. No, that's always worked for me is literally just saying the, these things out loud and therapy. And the more I say them, the more they get easier. They don't go away. I don't forget about them, but they don't control me and they don't have a hold on me. And like for me, I have PTSD and I still have flashbacks, but when I have a flashback and they still happen, they happen anytime, but they don't debilitate me and they don't stop me from living life. And I acknowledge them. I talk them through with somebody safe in my life and I move past it and I say, okay, that was okay. And I don't live in fear of flashbacks. Also something that's been helpful that seems so ridiculous, but my therapist has recommended it multiple times is to write a mean, nasty, horrible letter with all the bad things you want to say to whoever the person, if it's a person that has harmed you and rip it up and burn it. And that has really helped. I've done that a couple times with letters where they wouldn't be productive to send to the person. I just need to get all of that junk out and just physically writing has really been helpful. Beth: Yeah, I actually did that once too. Just hearing you say that reminded me of a time when I was, I was actually in a Bible study and it was on forgiveness and there was someone I hadn't forgiven for something bad that they had done to me. And it was not somebody I still had contact with. And it was not somebody who is in any way a part of my life. And yet my inability to forgive was really hurting me. And so I wrote it down. I just, I said, you know, I, I know I need to find a way to forgive you for what you did because not forgiving you is hurting me over and over and over again. And so I am going to forgive you. I just made the choice, which it can sound sort of artificial, but I had to, I had almost like take the power back in the situation. Right? And so I just decided I was going to forgive and I wrote it down and then exactly what you said. We burned it. And I felt as I, as I saw the words go away and I saw it become ash and then, and then the ashes, you know, sort of just become part of the smoke and it goes away. I just thought, oh, it worked. Right? Like, oh, I have, I can move on now. I don't have to hold on to that unforgiveness because I've really put that in the past. Steph: I really like the word power that you said is by not forgiving them. Those people are, that person sold power over you. And that's how I've looked at it too. Like recently, the last letter I burned up was I forgave my abusers from when I was a child. And I realize in that action of burning in seeing that go into the earth, they have no power over me anymore. It affected me on a daily basis. And by just that action, being able to forgive them, it doesn't mean I forget, doesn't mean that I'm going to go hang out with them and you know, be BFFs. But it means that they can't control me anymore. And that's, that's a powerful feeling. Beth: Yeah. It's taking back, Steph: empowering feeling Beth: Empowering. Yeah. It's taking back your own emotional agency. You know, that they don't get to say how you should feel their actions. Don't get to say how you should feel about yourself. You say how you feel about yourself. Steph: And I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that I'm worth it. Beth: Amen! Steph: I'm worth going to therapy and working on my stuff. And I think sometimes, I see this in some of my friends and just people out in the world is they don't deal with the stuff inside because they don't feel worthy of it. They feel like, oh, well I need, I need to go work. I don't have time for this. Or I need to be doing xyz. I don't, I don't have time to do this. You are worth it. We are all worth spending that time on. I mean, I learned that when I worked, uh, when I worked for Apple, I was a leader at Apple and one of the things we learned is I have to work on myself, my leadership skills before I can teach any of that to my team. And as much as that seems like, well, no, I should spend no time on me and all on my team, no, if you want to be healthy for someone else, you got to, you have to be healthy yourself. And that's something I've learned just throughout the years. And I continue, you know, I struggle with it, but I, I still am in therapy and I still have my, my set time to take care of myself so I can be the best for my family and friends. Beth: It's interesting how those, uh, how easy it is for us to come up with excuses to not work on ourselves because it's like, well, I have these other really important things that I have to do. You know, I have to, I have to build my business or I have to go to work or I have to do the laundry or go grocery shopping, like whatever it is. And then at the same time, we'll tell ourselves, "this isn't that big a deal. I shouldn't be making such a big deal about it. I need to just get over it." Not even realizing that we're not letting ourselves get over it. We're not giving ourselves the tools. We're not empowering ourselves to get over it because we're just letting it sit there and grow from that seed into the tumor. Right? Steph: And saying, "I just need to get over it" doesn't actually do anything. Beth: Oh, I wish it did! Steph: Yeah, I know, wouldn't that be great! I just need to get over this. Like just, it'll be fine. I just time plus me just forgetting about it, not talking about it will make it go away. It never has for me. I don't know. Let us know if it's worked for you. Beth: I have met more than one person who fully embraced the wrong idea that denial would somehow bring them freedom and it, it doesn't. Beth: Denial just keeps you trapped. Beth: So when you read the first part of the book and you talked about how the rage grew and how you had to call a roommate meeting if you had just, instead of coping with Non-Suicidal Self-Injury... Steph: Actually we probably should clarify like I just read the first paragraph, but it might be confusing. Beth: Okay. Steph: What happens after that paragraph is I got very angry at, I got very angry at my roommate for many reasons that go beyond just what happened in that moment. And I was mad. I was angry. That anger turned into rage and that destructive action that came to my head was I want to punch her. I thought about it, but I've never punched someone in my life. Maybe my brother, but not in the face. I mean, you know. So I went to my old coping mechanisms, which was to hurt myself to get that rage out. But I was off at college at this point and I didn't have my punching bag with me, so I didn't have that chance to punch that punching bag to get that initial intensity out. And I took that anger all out on myself, on my left, uh, left forearm. And after that I was sent to a mental hospital. Beth: It certainly created, it certainly freaked out the people who were around you. Steph: Yes. Yes. Beth: Because of the depth of the cut and the number of cuts. Steph: Yes. Beth: So, so before we talk about that more, I want to back you up a little bit because you said you could have punched her. Steph: Yeah. Oh, that was the feeling. Yeah. Beth: If you had punched her, don't you think the stigma would be different? If you were, if you were an angry person who got in fist fights, don't you think that that is somehow perceived differently than a person who copes with things by cutting? Steph: I had hours of just sitting doing nothing and the in the hospital, and I remember thinking of laying on the bed, looking at the metal toilet in the corner of the room and thinking, huh, a mental hospital and prison? Very similar. If I had punched her, would I be sitting in prison right now? And how would people perceive that? Because when I was in the mental hospital, people perceived me as the, you know the cliché quote of, “oh, she's crazy. Oh, she hurt herself. She must be trying to kill herself.” All of those terms that I didn't even realize people were thinking because for me, Non-Suicidal Self -Injury is exactly what it says in the title is to me, it's not about suicide. I wasn't trying to kill myself. I was trying to deal with emotions that I didn't know how to deal with and that was a destructive coping mechanism. So yeah, I thought about that. I thought, what would it have been like if I punched her and was in the in prison and I'm like, you know, I feel like people would have been like, oh, she has anger issues, but I can understand that. But when here people here I was in a mental hospital because I use NSSI, they don't understand that. And I understand, I understand that they can't understand it because they've not dealt with something like that in their life. But yeah, I've thought about that is I feel like if I had punched her instead of essentially punching myself, things might have been a lot different. Beth: So the reality that you stumbled on is that hurting others is more socially acceptable than hurting yourself. Steph: That's my perception. I can't say that that's everyone's perception, but I felt like people would have perceived me differently and less crazy if I had just punched somebody. Beth: I think that your perception on that is right. I mean that that is also... Steph: Does that make sense to you? Beth: Yeah, that is also my perception of it. That's how I perceive it. We have so much experience with people hurting other people that we can kind of wrap our minds around that. Oh, that happens. That's something that happens. But we are so used to self-preservation that that's why I think NSSI has this stigma of being "crazy." Steph: Yeah. Beth: And I know that that word can be very destructive and that we don't want to, we don't want to give it any value here, but that is the perception of it. That is how it is perceived. Steph: Yeah. I like the term more, you know, "struggling with a mental illness" or "mentally ill." I don't know, for me "crazy,"--I had to struggle for years about like the fact that I was calling myself crazy and you know, it's such a, I don't know, to me it's a, it's a very destructive term and people use it as like an offhanded term as well. And I don't even, I don't even know what the definition of it is. I just, I, I don't know, I don't like the term, but , you know, struggling with mental illnesses what is what I was struggling with because NSSI is a mental illness, Beth: Yeah, I do think that "crazy" can almost be dismissive also. Right? Steph: Yeah. "Oh, she crazy." Beth: Yeah. It's like, oh that doesn't mean anything. It's just another, it is a put-down. It is a put-down. Steph: So Beth, I'm curious, do you still struggle with rage today? Beth: I really don't. And one of the additional strategies that I got from my therapist that I probably should have mentioned earlier is she actually had me catalog how often I was having these like... Steph: Outbursts? Beth: Rage, outburst, rage filled outburst. There should be another word for that. Ragebursts or something. Steph: And you heard it here folks, #rageburst. Beth: And so I was able to actually see them decline, sort of on a chart, which was an interesting visual. It's a tool that I go back to even now. So I'll think, well I really lost it yesterday. That was the first time in a long, long time I had done that. Okay. So then I, then I have to do some self-awareness, right? Well, why, what was going on? What was I feeling? What, what was the source of the anger? , so use all of those coping mechanisms so that it doesn't ... so that I don't just emotionally vomit bile on the rest of the world. I mean, it's not, it's not okay to do that. I don't really struggle with rage in the same way at all. I think that it's a sign of emotional health to be able to deal with my feelings in a healthy way and to deal with the things that make me angry because I do still get angry. Anger is not, uh, is not a bad thing, but I don't, I don't have rage anymore. How about you? Steph: I would, I would agree with that. I definitely still struggle with anger. It's just kind of a part of my makeup. My anger comes from having a short temper and try to be very aware of it when it's happening. But I don't think I struggle with rage anymore. I don't feel like, I have that intense emotional reaction where I need to hit someone or me. And I, I don't really struggle with, NSSI anymore. It's still, in my thought-sphere, but I haven't struggled. I haven't used it in years. I don't have an exact date or anything. But for me, the therapy and the constant being aware of my emotions has really helped me, help the rage subside and helped me also be able to control my anger a lot better by being aware, emotionally aware. Yeah. Beth: And you know, we, we didn't really become friends through a 12-step study where we were really working through the, the aspects of recovery. And I think that we should mention that that is how some people cope, right? I cope by yelling. You coped with, with everything by NSSI. Some people might turn to alcohol or drugs, some other way to numb and deflect so that the feelings don't have to be dealt with. But what we both have learned, I think, is: Feelings have to be dealt with. They will wait for you if you don't deal with them. Steph: If you want to connect more on this topic or a future topics, we would love you to join us on our social media channels. You can find me on Instagram @SMKauthor. Beth: And you can find me on Twitter @BethDemme. It's D-e-m-m-e. Or you could find me on my website, Bethdemme.com. Steph: Well, you can find me on my website too! Stephaniekostopoulos.com. Beth: How do you spell that? Steph: K. O. S. T. O. P. O. U. L. O. S. Beth: I always want to put the "u" in the wrong place. Do it one more time. Steph: K. O. S. T. O. P. O. U. L. O. S. My grandmother taught me that like, Duh, Duh, Duh Duh Duh, Duh. Helps a lot. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. So Beth, last week we asked a caller question and we did have someone call in and answer the question. Do you remember what the question was last week? Beth: The question last week was: "What honest conversation would you like to hear Steph and Beth tackle?" Steph: Well, wow, it's like you had that memorized. So, I want to play that because we did have a caller answer that. Here we go. Voicemail: Hey, this is Cara. As far as any topics go, you know: Childhood Trauma. Marriage Issues. Issues with food. The ways women cope, you know, with, with anxiety and stress and depression. Steph: Oh, I got a lot of those, but you are going to have to take the marriage stuff. Beth: So I'll take the marriage stuff. I'll take the marriage stuff. I've been married a long time. Steph: How long have you been married? Beth: Oh, what year is it? I've been married for 23 years. Steph: Wow. Beth: Yeah, I got married very young. Steph: How old? Beth: I was 20. Steph: Oh yeah. Okay. Beth: Yeah, I had just turned 20. So I got married very young, but it's all worked out. You know, she actually talked in her voicemail about coping mechanisms, which is something that we sort of talked about today, but she gave us a lot of good ideas for things that we can tackle in future honest conversations. Steph: Yes, we'll be sure to write those down and put them on our, on our long list that we're trying to go through. I don't know, we'll figure it out. Beth: Coming up with show topics is one of our favorite things Steph: And terrifying things. But we do have a question for this week. We would love for you to call in and let us know what your biggest takeaway from today was. Beth: Steph, what was your biggest takeaway from today? Steph: My biggest takeaway from today was: rage can look a lot different from person to person, but it needs to be dealt with in the same way. It sounds like, based on us two at least, it needs to be dealt with. It's probably like an underlying, something that hasn't been resolved that needs to be addressed and taken care of in some kind of therapy or accountability group of some sort. Beth: I think my biggest takeaway today is that I'm not unique in dealing with rage. That this is not something that I need to be ashamed about. It's something that I need to address and, and then I am glad that I have addressed so that I can move forward from it. Steph: That's great. I love the word shame because I feel like there's such shame and stigma on therapy and I'm glad that we got to talk about that a lot today. We will talk about that more in the future for sure. So whatever your takeaway is, we love to hear it. Doesn't have to be super deep? Don't stress about it, it can be anything really. We'd love to hear from you and Beth, what is the number they can call in? Beth: Give us a call at (850) 270-3308. Steph: That is correct, Beth. That was the number and that is a phone number so you can just call that on your phone and it will be our voicemail line and you can just talk. I think it might cut you off at three minutes, so just keep that in mind. Beth: Let me say the number one more time with more confidence. The number is (850) 270-3308. Steph: Each episode we'd love to end with something we're calling Questions For Reflection. This is a couple of questions we've put together for you to answer in your head or on paper. It will be available for download on our website as well. This is just an opportunity for you to go a little bit deeper if you want. And if you don't want to, then we'll see you next week. Beth: Question number one, what makes you angry? Has there been a time when your anger turned into rage? Do you take your rage out on yourself or others? Why? What tools can you use to deal with your anger and/or rage? Steph: This has been the Discovering Our Scars Podcast. Thanks for joining us. Quotable
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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