Show Notes
Questions for Reflection
Each episode we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. You might pause the podcast and answer them right then and there, but if you keep a journal (Steph and Beth both do), you might find one of these PDFs useful. Choose the orientation that fits best in your journal.
Transcript
Beth Demme (00:04):
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:06): Where we have honest conversations about things that make us different. I'm Steph. Beth Demme (00:10): And I'm Beth. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:11): I've been in recovery for 13-plus years and am the author of Discovering My Scars, my memoir about my mental health struggles, experiences, and faith. Beth Demme (00:19): I'm a lawyer-turned-pastor who's all about self-awareness and emotional health because I know what it's like to have neither of those things! Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:25): Beth and I have been friends for six years, have gone through a recovery program together, and when I wanted to start a podcast, she was the only name that came to mind as co-host. Beth Demme (00:34): I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot from honest conversations with Steph over the years. Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:39): We value honest conversations and we hope you do, too. Beth Demme (00:43): That's why we do this and why we want you to be part of what we're discussing today. What is our topic today, Steph? Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:49): It's more of a statement, Beth. We're just going to tell you why anxiety is stupid. It's stupid. It's just stupid. Beth Demme (00:58): What do we mean by that? I mean, are we saying that people who experience anxiety are stupid? Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:02): No. Beth Demme (01:03): No. Do we mean that there are some feelings that are stupid? Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:09): No. Beth Demme (01:10): We mean that sometimes an anxious response can feel like it comes out of nowhere and in that way it can feel like, "Oh, this is stupid. Why do I feel like this?" Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:20): Yeah. New Speaker (01:21): Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:21): It's annoying. When you're already feeling anxious and scared about something that it... Anxiety can cause so many issues, it can cause stress responses, can be the same as smoking. I mean, it's ridiculous. The things that it can do, the physical things it can do your body, it's just stupid. We'll talk about that today. Beth Demme (01:44): Right. Yeah, and we're not judging anyone else's experience with it, right, we're just sharing our own experiences with it and how we have felt about it, yes? Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:54): Well, yes. The reason why we picked this topic for today is because I just had a full-blown panic attack a week ago and I've experienced anxiety off and on throughout the years. I've also experienced panic attacks. My first really big experience with panic attacks was when I worked for Apple in Orlando. I don't know if you've ever been to an Apple Store. There's a lot of people in Apple Stores. They're very popular because they're awesome. I love Apple Stores, but there would be times when there were just so many people around me that I couldn't handle it. Then people would be angry and I was the leader, so people would yell at me, and then team members would be angry and yell at me. Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:40): It was a lot. It was a lot to take as a leader and someone that's supposed to be level-headed and be able to handle these things. I had a lot of panic attacks when I actually worked there and I would go on my 15-minute breaks and just break down and then go back to work because I had to. There was no other option. I had to get back there. Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:58): But for me, anxiety is just racing thoughts and just overthinking and getting stressed about something and being nervous about something and all those things compile into anxiety. Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:12): Then when there's multiple sources, I'll tell the example of what happened this weekend, my dog, Mac, we've talked about her before, she was sick. She is sick. She has an ongoing thing that a lot of Greyhounds have coming out of Florida and I've been dealing with it, but she got really sick this weekend. I was really anxious about it. When you see someone you love in pain, you know how that feels, you feel helpless. I felt helpless and I felt like I wanted to help her and do what I could, but she was off and she was struggling with things. Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:53): I was getting very anxious about that because of seeing her in that pain, but also because we're recording this in May of 2020 and we're still dealing with the global pandemic of coronavirus. I've had a lot of anxiety lately because that's been overshadowing everything. All the normal things, all the normal stresses in life, that's been an extra weight on top of everything that's been happening. Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:24): I lost my Pappou this month and I wasn't able to go to the funeral because of the pandemic. It's just weighs everything down and makes everything more heavy. I've been able to deal with Mac's illness before, but this time, I was overthinking everything. I thought, "Well, if I have to take her to the emergency Vet, how am I going to do that? Are they even accepting people? How can I deal with this on my own?" I was very just overthinking everything and I was having a hard time breathing and having a hard time processing. Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:02): I wanted to call my mom and have her come over and make everything better, but then I also had a sore throat earlier that day. That seems like no big deal, but a sore throat can be a symptom of COVID-19. In my mind, I thought, "What if I have the virus?" I don't want to expose my mom to it anymore than I probably already had, so I felt it was selfish to call her and to have her come over. Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:30): I was getting more anxiety because that's all I really wanted was my mom. I was like, "I just want my mommy here." So I called my sponsor. We've talked in the past that I've a recovery sponsor through Celebrate Recovery. I called her and I was talking to her through everything and I told her, "I really just want my mom." She's like, "Well, can you just call her and tell her what's going on and let her decide? Don't ask her to come over, just let her decide." Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:55): I finally got the courage to call her. Of course, my mom came over, and of course, she wasn't mad. I told her, "But what if I have the virus?" She's like, "If you have the virus, we'll deal with it. Don't even worry about that," which was such a relief, because it was just like that was part of the swirling of thoughts, was the swirling and swirling, swirling. Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:16): It's a long story, but Mac is okay. My puppy's doing great. I have talked to the Vet. We have some medications for emergencies for things like that in the future. So she's good. My mom did spend the night. I needed that, just knowing she was there. That was what I needed and I was able to get through that panic attack, but it was ... the biggest thing was my brain just kept racing, I couldn't turn it off. I was having to consciously breathe. I was having to deep breathe. Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:51): Even the next day, I was still, felt very much on edge that I could swirl back into that swirling of panic again. I didn't, but it just felt like I had to see results that Mac was doing okay. I had to see, okay, she's eating. She's doing this, doing that. I still had to see those results to be able to calm. Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:15): Now, I'm much calmer about it. I can talk about it. I can breathe, but I've already taken steps to--not prevent it because I don't think I brought on the panic attack--I think it could happen again, especially just with this heightened state that, that I'm in, the world's in, but I have created a list of things I can do when I'm in that state. Beth Demme (07:40): What do you think is at the root of it? Is it that things are out of control and that's what's spiraling? Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:49): There are so many unknowns right now. In my brain and my personality, my personality always tends to overthink things. I'm an introvert, I'm a thinker. I tend to just process everything in my head and don't really put it out there in the world. I just process it. Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:07): I think when there are so many unknowns out there, like there is right now, I mean, my job is unknown right now. I think your job is unknown. I think a lot of our jobs are unknown. That simple thing that we all... I mean, it's something that fluctuates for all of us at different times, but I think that simple thing is, that's unknown. I mean, our food supply is unknown. Just our way of life is unknown. There's so many unknowns right now. I think that's what is contributing, so every... Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:39): My dog being sick in the past, it was a bummer and I dealt with it, but now my dog being sick, on top of the unknowns of life, just bared down on me and just got me into a swirling world that I had never been in before or hadn't been in in a long time. Beth Demme (08:58): You said that you haven't dealt with it in a long time. Is it connected to depression? Because we've talked about that. We had an episode about it. We had an honest conversation about depression. I know that anxiety and depression can be related. Is that part of what's happening right now? Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:15): That was one interesting thing that I realized. My panic attack happened on Saturday and on Sunday, a realization I had: in the past, I always thought of depression and anxiety as not one and the same, but complementary of each other, that you had one with the other. I never could see how you could have one, but not the other. It always seemed like they were hand-in-hand to me because for a good amount of my twenties specifically, I was depressed. I just constantly was depressed. When I was depressed and the anxiety was on top of that, it was like depression and anxiety, I had them both. Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:58): I realized on Saturday, there was no ounce of depression. I wasn't depressed. It was pure anxiety, it was pure panic. I wasn't experiencing depressed thoughts or feelings. It was purely anxiety. It did make me realize that you can have anxiety without depression. It can be two separate things very easily because for example, when I'm depressed, I don't want to be around people. I don't think I want my mommy when I'm depressed. I just am like, I just want to be here. Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:30): But when I had anxiety, I mean, I went through my head. I thought of all the people I could have come over. I even thought about you, Beth. I was like, "I know she would come over," but- Beth Demme (10:40): I would. Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:40): ... then the virus and all the things. I wanted someone here with me, I need another person, and I thought through all the people, like I said, when I initially thought, "I can't ask my mom, that's not fair," but then I never think that when I'm depressed that I want a person with me, I want someone to just be with me. I don't typically, I'm not going to say I never do. Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:03): That was something that was different with this panic attack. I was like, "I want some with me, I just need someone here to be a brain of reason." That was an interesting realization to me that it is definitely two separate things. Beth Demme (11:16): I don't think that you're alone in having anxiety and having it amplified or having it present during this ongoing pandemic time, because I had a friend post on Facebook. It was really funny how she said it. She woke up in the middle of the night with indigestion, just normal indigestion. It just happens every once in a while and she said, her first thought was, "Oh, no, 'Rona's got me," right? Because something bad is happening in my body, it must be this virus that's sweeping the world. It's affected millions of people. She said it didn't take her long to talk herself down off the ledge, but still, that was her first thought. Beth Demme (12:02): I think that there is this heightened sensitivity to it. It's like you're saying, if normally our baseline is low enough that we can deal with the regular things that come along, like Mac having a bad day or something, well, the baseline of how we're feeling is not at our normal baseline. It's elevated. It makes us, I think, more sensitive to the things that we can't control and to the things that are unknown. It's like the bucket of unknowns that I can deal with, it's already full with things that weren't true a couple months ago or three or four months ago, so it can make it hard when something else goes wrong Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:48): With that, I also was, most of the time that I was had the panic attack, I literally thought I was going to vomit the whole time, which I know is gross, but that's another symptom. I never did, but I literally, my body, I was having physical reactions to this, just like your body physically reacts to stress in so many crazy different ways, which I've been dealing with this whole time during the pandemic season, because I've had to, every time I'm having... Oh, by the way, the sore throat went away- Beth Demme (13:22): Excellent. Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:23): ... by the way. I have to keep reminding myself, I have to keep processing and saying, "Have you experienced this kind of sore throat before? Is this normal for you?" I realized, "Yes, I've experienced this kind of tightness," or whatever. "I've experienced it before, so don't go to the bad place." Have you experienced feeling sick before? Yes. Throughout this whole time, I've had to remind myself, "Is this a normal occurrence in your life? Yes? Don't go to the bad place. If this progresses to something, we'll deal with it then." Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:58): I think that's part of what I'm taking is my racing thoughts. I think, through all the scenarios and they're all bad, but I think they're all the scenarios and I've realized now I need to remind myself, is this helpful thinking? Is this important thought? When I'm getting ready for an event or something, some of those scenarios are good things to think through. It's good to think, "Well, what if it rains? Okay, well, then I'll bring this. What if somebody asks for my information? Okay, I'll bring my business cards." Those are good things to think through, but you- Beth Demme (14:33): Those are good what-ifs. Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:34): ... Exactly, but "What if Mac dies?" That wasn't an okay thing to think through at that moment. It's like, if that happens, I'll deal with it when it happens, but thinking through the steps. Okay, well, then I'll cremate her. Those are not okay things to be thinking through in that moment. It was, "Is she okay right now? Yes, she is. If she needs to go outside, will she let me know? Yes. She has been." She did, she woke me up three times that night. That was fine. I took her out. She did what she needed to do. She was okay. She survived. Was I super bummed and sad? Yes, because I'm her dog mom and I don't want to see her sick. Beth Demme (15:13): And you have the shirt to prove it. Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:14): I do have my dog shirt mom on. Beth Demme (15:16): I recently had a moment of what I would just call "hypochondria," I don't know clinically what it would be called. I have never, ever had a UTI and I had my first ever UTI and my first thought was, "Great. Now I have cervical cancer. I had ovarian cancer and now I have cervical cancer." It took me several hours to remember that I don't have that part. Everything has been removed, right? Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:47): Yeah. Beth Demme (15:49): When I went to the doctor, I said, "You're not going to believe what I was thinking." It was a medical student because my doctor's office participates with the College of Medicine at Florida State. He was so kind. He said, "You're right that the symptoms are the same. It was not out of line for you to think that." It had resolved for me, I wasn't panicked about it anymore, so I really appreciated his kindness and his affirmation and it was, "I understand why you thought that," but it was definitely a moment of overblown worry about medical stuff. Beth Demme (16:27): I think we all need to have some strategies for dealing with the things that are out of our control and for dealing with the what-ifs that can get overwhelming. You alluded to it earlier that you thought through, "Okay, the next time I'm feeling this, what are some steps that I can take? What are some things that I can have in place to help myself?" Tell us about those. When things calmed down, what did you come up with that you could do? Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:57): I have made a list because I thought that something that will help with my anxiety is being prepared, is being prepped for. Before we started recording today, we talked about we've heard it's going to be a bad hurricane season here in Florida. I told you that we are doing a little prepping. We're not going overboard, we don't have a garage full of water, but I just bought some coolers in case electricity goes out and we need to put our food in a cooler. That helps with things that are unknown, like a hurricane, like anxiety, like we don't, we don't know what's going to happen. It's very helpful for me to have lists to refer to. Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:35): For my anxiety list, I'm literally looking at it on my iPhone. My number-one thing is to call my mom, which also can refer to anyone in my safe group of trusted people. If mom is a necessary one for that one, then that's who I'll call, but that's number one. Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:55): Number two is a week or two ago I bought this thing. It looks like a inhaler? Is that what you call an inhaler? Beth Demme (18:05): It does look like an inhaler. Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:06): Yeah, it looks like an inhaler. Beth Demme (18:07): Yeah, that's exactly what it looks like. Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:09): But it doesn't have any kind of chemicals or medicine or anything in it. Literally, all it does is you blow into it and it has little lot dots and it helps you regulate your breathing. When you breathe out into it, it tells you if you've had a complete breath and it continues to monitor your breathing and helps you to breathe in a calm pattern. Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:34): I actually had bought it right before this panic attack and I kept using it and I haven't been able to use it enough to tell you, "Yes, go buy it." I will tell you it's expensive. I think it's way overpriced, but I'm going to continue to use it and see if it's helpful. It felt helpful for Saturday, so I was really glad I had it. It's called CalmiGo. It's spelled Calm-I-go. I think they say "CalmiGo" is how they say it. It's really interesting. It comes in purple and gray. Guess what color I got? Beth Demme (19:03): Purple. Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:04): Purple. It also has a lavender scent when you inhale, like breathe in through your nose, you can smell that. I think it's a cool concept. It doesn't do anything besides help you breathe, but when you're in the middle of heavy anxiety, that's a hard thing to do, so I like it. That's on my list. Beth Demme (19:25): Is that like when people will say you should breathe in and out of a paper bag? Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:29): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Beth Demme (19:29): When I was in high school and I was in the marching band, one of my friends dealt with a lot of... Well, I just remember that she would have these attacks where she was hyperventilating, so that's what they would have her do. They would have her breathe in and out of a brown paper bag and I guess she would focus on the bag filling and then contracting. Is this the CalmiGo sort of the 21st-century version of that? Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:53): Yeah. I would say so because it helps you concentrate on your breathing. I really like it. I wish it was a little bit... It's not a smart device, so I wish there was some more smart features of it because, hey, I'm a techie. It's easy-to-use, though. I will say that. It's easy to use. There's not a lot of thinking or anything difficult about it. I'm happy with it. I'm going to keep it and keep trying it. I'm not saying it's like a miracle, but it is our generation's paper bag. Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:25): Also on my list is I have a neck wrap that can be warmed and it's kind of weighted. Weighted things help ground and is helpful. That's on my list. Beth Demme (20:37): It's like a hug. Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:37): Yeah. You know I love hugs. Also, if you don't know, I don't love hugs, that was why I said that, which is. Beth Demme (20:46): I think the sarcasm came through. Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:47): Okay, good. I'm glad it did. I also have a massage chair. Don't judge me, I did not buy it, but I love it. That's on my list to do. Drink water, that was really helpful when I had my panic attack, so I have it on there. I have a diffuser with lavender so to remind me to do that. Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:05): Also, my mom has a weighted blanket that she was going to give me for a while and just kept forgetting. She just gave it to me and actually, I've started to sleep with that, even though I'm not having major attacks right now. It's actually, I've slept with it the last three nights and I like it. I think I'm going to keep sleeping with it because I like to feel like I'm in kind of a cocoon when I'm sleeping, so it's great because it weighs you down a little bit, but not too much. The first night, I felt like I was a little bit like suffocated. I was like, "Ooh, this is weird," but since then, I feel like I've already adjusted to it and I really like it. Beth Demme (21:44): Let me ask you a question about that because I've been thinking about getting one because I like that sensation as well, but does it make you hot? I'm afraid that I'll be too hot when I'm sleeping. Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:54): No, I actually think I'm going to keep it as my... It's actually, I usually have a thick comforter on because I like the weight, but it's too hot, my comforter. This is perfect. This is way lighter than my comforter. I'm actually going to get a blanket to put over the weighted blanket just for a little bit more heat, but my mom mentioned because the beads inside are like plastic beads or something, they don't retain heat, so it's a nice, cool feeling. Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:21): I don't know what brand this one is. This one was actually given to my mom from a friend who didn't like it, so I'll have to look to see what the brand is, but I really like it. It's heavy when you're just carrying the whole thing, it's heavy, because it's probably the size of a full, but I have a queen bed. It fits on there pretty nicely, but it's probably the size of a full. Beth Demme (22:41): Yeah, and you can buy them in different weights. Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:43): Yeah, exactly. Beth Demme (22:44): You can buy them heavier or lighter and then like you're saying, whatever they're filled with will determine if they trap the heat or released the heat. I just thought even the ones that say they don't trap the heat, I was afraid it would still be hot. They're a little bit of an investment. They're not cheap, so I didn't want to buy it and then be like, "Ugh. Now, I'm too hot when I'm sleeping." Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:02): Yeah. The other thing on my list was you know we've talked about medication before, I'm not a big fan of medication, although I think there's a time and a place. My last thing on my list is actually medication. I talked to my doctor about this and she has already prescribed me an emergency medication that I don't have to take daily. I can just take as a last resort if I'm having a panic attack and I really can't get it under control that I can take this medication, so I probably will never take it, but I like knowing I have it. Just like with Mac, I have some medications. If the medical stuff happens again, as a last resort, I have that. I like that. I have that for me as well. That's my healthy toolkit for anxiety. Beth Demme (23:46): I think it's great to know that there is a medication option that you don't have to just take all the time that can be like an emergency inhaler, that kind of an application. That's really good to know. Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:59): Well, when I called my mom, she was driving over to my house and she told me later on, she said, "When I was driving to your house, I thought, 'I might have to take her to the emergency room. Oh no, we'll have to go to the emergency room.'" I was like, "Mom, I would have not gone to the emergency room because that would have added even more anxiety to it." Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:21): Yeah, I mean, if you've read my book, I actually have the whole experience with the ER, which was not a positive experience, so I'm very hesitant to go to the ER in general. I'm not against it. I think there's definitely... if you need to, go, but during the pandemic time right now, I don't want to go to an ER. That's also the medication. If I got to the state where I thought I needed to go to the ER, I would try the medication first. Beth Demme (24:47): So, anxiety is stupid because it's dealing with what-ifs and things that are out of control and things that we can't change, anyway. Is that what we mean when we say "anxiety is stupid"? Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:01): Yes. I do want to say two other things that I listed on my list to ask myself is- Beth Demme (25:08): Oh, good. Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:08): "Is this productive?" like the thoughts and, "What will overthinking accomplish?" Those are two other things that I would ask myself is, "Is this thought process actually going to be productive?" If it's not, then stop it. Stop it! Beth Demme (25:26): Of course, it's not always that easy, right? Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:27): No. Beth Demme (25:27): It's not always easy just to boss yourself around and be like, "No. No, self. Don't be thinking that." Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:33): No. Not at all. That's why anxiety is stupid, because we know it's stupid that we're overthinking things. It's like depression. I know when I'm depressed, but that doesn't make it any easier to not be depressed. It's like, I mean, mental illnesses in general are just, they're so complex and they just take over our minds. Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:56): Literally, when I was trying to fall asleep on Saturday, I was thinking, "Oh, we can talk about this on the podcast," and I was thinking of... I was still literally in the panic attack and I was like, I couldn't fall asleep because I was overthinking the podcast. I was like, "No, this is not okay. This is not important right now. This is not something I need to thinking about." I was just like, "Oh, my gosh. This is where my brain goes to all..." I just keep going from one thing to the other and one thing, yeah. There's a lot of self-awareness that goes into mental illnesses as a whole. Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:35): I was glad that I was recognizing that I was having a panic attack and I was glad that I let other human beings know I'm I am proud of myself for making those steps because that is hard. That's hard to admit, like, "I'm having a hard time." That's hard to say. I admit that. I haven't figured everything out. I still have struggles and I don't think they're going to... They're not just going to magically go away. I'm going to keep dealing with them head-on and keep making my list and trying to keep being the best human I can every day. Beth Demme (27:10): Right. Keep moving towards emotional health. Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:14): Exactly. Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:19): Thank you for joining us for today's episode. I did mention it a little bit in the podcast, but I do again want to remind you, I have a book. It's called Discovering My Scars. It is available in paperback, in audiobook, and in ebook. They're available on all platforms. I will tell you my favorite platform for each of those things. You ready? Beth Demme (27:41): I'm ready. Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:42): My favorite platform for getting a paperback book is Amazon. My favorite platform for audiobook is Audible, which is also Amazon. Beth Demme (27:51): Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:51): My favorite platform for an ebook is Apple Books. What are your favorite platforms, Beth? Beth Demme (27:58): I guess I'm Amazon all the way because I order paperbacks from Amazon because I have Prime and they get here quickly, usually, although I do have a friend now who works at a local bookstore, so I have been feeling a little bit guilty about being so Amazon loyal. Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:14): You should, Beth. You should feel guilty. Beth Demme (28:16): I should. Yeah, please, should all over me. Then I love audiobooks. In fact, I have a new one that I've started now and I always use Audible for those. Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:28): You're actually on an audiobook, right? You have a guest appearance on an audiobook. Beth Demme (28:31): I am. It's so exciting, yes, for the foreword. Right. Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:36): Of Discovering My Scars. Beth Demme (28:38): Discovering My Scars by Stephanie Kostopoulos, but my preferred format for eBooks is not Apple. It is Kindle, which is also Amazon. Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:49): Wow. At the end of each episode, we end with questions for reflection. These are questions based on today's show and Beth will read them and leave a little pause between. There'll also be a PDF available on our website at dospod.us. Beth Demme (29:08): Number one: Describe any experience you have had with anxiety, whether in yourself or someone you care about. Beth Demme (29:15): Number two: How do you plan for anxious moments in your life? List some things that you can put in your healthy toolkit for anxiety or tough situations. Beth Demme (29:25): Number three: If you deal with anxiety, what situations tend to make it worse? Why? Beth Demme (29:32): Number four: How do you understand the connection between anxiety and depression? Beth Demme (29:38): Number five: How do you deal with the what-ifs in your life? In other words, how do you deal with the unknown things you can't control? Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:46): This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcast. Thanks for joining us. Quotable
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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