Show Notes
Caller Question
Call or text us at 850-270-3308 and answer this Episode's question:
Questions for Reflection
Each episode we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. You might pause the podcast and answer them right then and there, but if you keep a journal (Steph and Beth both do), you might find one of these PDFs useful. Choose the orientation that fits best in your journal.
Transcript
Beth: 00:03
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars Podcast Steph: 00:06 Where we have honest conversations about things that make us different. I'm Steph. Beth: 00:10 And I'm Beth. Steph: 00:11 I've been recovery for 13 plus years and recently wrote a book Discovering My Scars about my mental health struggles, experiences and faith. Beth: 00:18 I'm a lawyer turned pastor who's all about self-awareness and emotional health because I know what it's like to have neither of those things. Steph: 00:24 Beth and I have been friends for six years, have gone through a recovery program together and when I wanted to start a podcast, she was the only name that came to mind as cohost. Beth: 00:32 I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot from honest conversations with Steph over the years. Steph: 00:37 We value honest conversations and we hope you do too. Beth: 00:40 That's why we do this and why we want you to be part of what we are discussing today. What is our topic today Steph? Steph: 00:46 Well Beth, I'm just too busy to really talk about today’s topic. I mean I have a lot of stuff on my schedule so we just need to get through with this. Beth: 00:55 So our topic today is: Why do people glamorize being overworked? Why do we think it's so great to be busy? Steph: 01:07 Busy, busy, busy, Beth: 01:08 Busy, busy, busy. Steph: 01:08 Yes. I can tell you, I feel like there is like pride and honor that in being busy, I feel like that's a thing that I've noticed. People, you know, Oh, I'm so busy with this, this and this and that and I'm just, I'm over it. Like I just gotta put it out there. Like I, when people, when I'm meeting up with somebody and they're like, I'm so sorry I was late. I'm just so busy and dah, dah, dah, that's great for you. But that's not an excuse to me. We're all busy! Who is not busy? Who does not have things? And you're busy. May not look like my busy, but we all have lives and we all have things. When I am spending time with you, I'm here with you. Beth, I'm here with you. Beth: 01:48 I feel like you looked at me when you were like when people are late, cause I do, I have noticed I have a tendency to run a few minutes late. Steph: 01:53 But you don't say, Oh I'm so busy. I'm so sorry I'm late because I'm so busy. Beth: 01:56 No, I'm just terrible at knowing when to leave. Steph: 01:59 I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't have a problem with people. And I think there's people you know like that you hang out with a lot like Oh they're going to be a little late. That's fine. And then there's people that are always on time so I think that's fine. But if their excuse for being late is like, Oh I'm so busy. If your excuses I left too late. Just say that. Cause sometimes that's my excuse. Sorry. I left late. Beth: 02:19 I just, I just should have given myself five more minutes. So sorry. Or sometimes what happens is—I am busy. Like I'm not using that excuse, but I am busy and I'll think, “Oh I can get just get one more thing done,” which then makes me leave late. Steph: 02:32 Yeah. Beth: 02:32 But I totally, I totally hear you. People use it as an excuse, you know, for a whole host of things. It's almost like anything you want to ask, it's like Oh yeah, I’m busy. Steph: 02:41 Or a crutch for things like, Oh, I can't do that because I'm just busy. I have like so much going on, I can't do that. Beth: 02:47 So why do you think people do that? Do you think there's like this value in being busy? Like where if you're not busy then you're less than, or your life isn't as important or you're not as good. Steph: 02:58 I don't where it comes from specifically. I just feel like it's part of our culture is like we need to be busy, busy, busy. And I'm not sure where it started, but maybe TV? I don't know. I can't, I'm trying to think of a show that's like, you know, we're all busy all the time. Actually, I feel like shows are the opposite. Like, like how do they have all that time where they're just hanging out all the time? Just having conversations like Friends, Oh my gosh, how are they always in that coffee shop 10 times a day? That is not real life. Beth: 03:26 Central Perk is the best place ever! Steph: 03:29 We just, I gotta say we just realized—Central Perk we always thought was like a play on Central Park. Beth: 03:37 Right! Steph: 03:37 But before this episode recording today, we got off on a weird tangent and we were talking about coffee pots that percolate. And then we realized, oh, I wonder if Central Perk comes from percolating. Beth: 03:48 And we think it does. Steph: 03:49 We think it does. We think it's a play on two words. Let us know if that's accurate. Call in and let us know. Beth: 03:55 And we were thinking about that because the problem with being so busy is that you don't have margin in your life and then your ideas can't percolate. Steph: 04:04 Exactly. Beth: 04:05 That was how we got off on this whole tangent about Central Perk. Steph: 04:08 And Beth wrote the word percolate down and I had never seen it written down and I was like, what? Oh, what a fun word. I mean I know the word, but I'd never seen it written down. So I think that's a very important thing about not over being over-scheduled. Like for me, I need downtime and if I just work like I don't understand people that like work until they literally go to bed. I don't understand that. Like work work work, okay I'm just going to crash. That doesn't work for me. I have to have my like shutting down time like a computer, you know, it doesn't just shut down. It has to go through the process. I have my process when I have downtime, when I just spend time like walking Mac around the block, that gives me time to really think about things and process and I come up with great ideas when I just have that space to not be filled with I have to do this, this and the other. Beth: 04:58 I think when we're just going from task to task or worrying about how long the list of tasks is there's no room for your mind to just process things. And then I think that builds on itself. But I was thinking about the idea of why do we value being busy? And I wonder if it does have something to do with TV and not shows like Friends where they have all of this time to just kind of hang out and crazy antics, those crazy kids. But I wonder, I really grew up in the 80s and a lot of those shows, it was like the powerful person (who back then was always a man), had a secretary and he was so busy that he needed someone else to like schedule his time for him. And so I wonder if it comes from our sort of general understanding of how the business world used to work and this idea that busy people were the important people in the company and that their time was more valuable. And I mean, when I practiced law that was still true, right? I'm sure it's still true today that like the partners who are more experienced, their time is literally more valuable. People pay more for their time than for the person who's just out of law school. And so that sort of feeds into this idea that, Oh well if you're busy, or you're more in demand, your time is more valuable so it's good to be busy. Beth: 06:43 Yes, and by the way that that is, I think how the world sees it. Steph: 06:43 Do you feel less valued now that you're not a practicing lawyer? Was that too heavy? Beth: 06:43 I do not feel that I have less value. I think there are many people who see me as less valuable, but that's on them, not on me. Steph: 06:43 I would agree. I feel there are people that don't see the value I provide because they don't understand what I do. I would agree with that. I think you're spot on with people, business-type men and women CEOs, lawyers, doctors are seen as their time is very valuable because they went to a lot of school and they're very smart and they are very important people and they're always busy. Especially, oh my gosh. My doctor! Every time I go, she has like how many patients she sees in a day. I mean just in the time she's seeing me, she's probably seeing it for their patients. I mean I love my doctor but I'm just like, man they, their schedule is so busy. Beth: 07:40 It's really a schedule that I would never want for myself. And actually—my kids and I, we don't go to the same doctor—but they're in the same practice and the doctor who treats my kids, he's, he's like my age. And he and I actually had a conversation about this at some point within the last year, how there's a time early in your, in your professional career where all you want to do is get that schedule full because that's how you make money. And then you get to a point where you're like, wow, time is so much more valuable than money. It's okay to say oh I'm not going to see patients on Friday because I have to have some margin in my life. But there's sort of this, there seems to be in a wave or an arc or an evolution to that understanding coming along. Steph: 08:26 Tell us about margin. Beth: 08:26 So margin is essential for reading. Like you wouldn't, when you pick up a book, pick up a book, like Discovering My Scars there's margin all around the page because you need that in order for your eye to process what you're reading. If it goes corner to corner, it's harder to read. And just in the same way we need margin in our life so that our minds can process what we're experiencing. Steph: 08:28 I like that analogy. So if we have, working from when we wake up to when we go down, we have no margin to really see the extra things and let our brain process things that are important that we can't really even put into the schedule. Beth: 09:19 Have you ever had a season where you didn't have margin in your life? Steph: 09:19 I get through short time periods of time where I don't or don't have like as much as I would. Like a couple weeks ago we were working on a bunch of projects at once. It's always challenging when we're literally working on multiple projects, building multiple projects. Most of my time is taken up with that. When I'm in those kinds of seasons, I know that I'm not going to get as much downtime as I need, but I try to, after I get past those, those parts, I then try to overcompensate for it and just have some days where I allow myself to just, you know, watch TV all day and I'm okay with that. I think that's part of it is we look at like being busy as like a badge of honor and I've tried to really, really change that in my life. And when I, you know, on a weekend sometime I'll sometimes on weekends, you know, when you're self-employed you make your schedule. So weekends sometimes are working for me and sometimes I'll take off days during the week. I can just kind of change the schedule depending on what I feel like and what, what the needs are at that point. I make sure before I go to bed I make sure I know what my day looks like for the next day, for the next working day. But I really take pride in like checking off my list of things because that as I check I'm like, Oh I get a satisfaction of like, okay that was, I did a good job, I got that done. But I also on the flip side, when I have a day off where I'm just kind of being, watching TV, maybe just doing laundry, not doing too much, I still allow, I don't look at that as like a wasted day and I don't get mad at myself for like not being productive cause just being and relaxing is productive I think is an important thing in my life. And so I allow myself to have those days and I don't feel upset about that. So I think there's value in having time off and allowing myself to have time off and just allow myself to have fun and not being like, Oh, there's so many things I need to get done during this time. Because for me there's always something I can do. Like there's always, just before we started recording, I took Mac for a walk and I could have edited some of a video in those 20 minutes. But you know what, it was way more valuable for me, too important for me to take her for a walk. And now she's not whining because she's all nice and tired. Beth: 11:31 So do you try to give yourself two days off every week? Like are you on a five day to day kind of schedule? Steph: 11:31 No, my weeks are not really weeks. It's not like here's one week, here's another week. Because there's times when—like I just went out of town and so that threw off what a week looked like. And so that week’s structure became kind of a different type of week structure. Like I don't intentionally like, okay, what are my two days off? Because even on days off where I'm not doing my full schedule, I will do little things here and there. This weekend I'm not planning on doing a structured day, but I'm going to edit a podcast because that's a good time to get those done. If I have a day off, I don't say like I'm not doing anything. I just don't force myself into like you have to get these things done. If it feels like you want to do something, you know, edit this podcast. Until it gets down to the wire and it’s like, “you gotta edit this podcast.” Beth: 12:20 Yeah, so in Christianese, in church talk, we talk a lot well, we probably don't talk about it a lot. We should talk about it more. Ooh, should! The Christianese word for this is: Sabbath. The idea is there was a time when God even created rest. That we need that in our lives. And I have had to use that with myself to make myself enjoy the down time. It's just exactly what you just said. I can always be doing something. There are lots of things for the job that I get paid to do, which is to serve in a church. There are lots of things that need attention in that job that could be done at anytime of the day and then I have things that I volunteer for and those can be done anytime of the day and then I'm a full time grad student so that can be done anytime of the day and there are times where I will kind of get into a cycle of nonstop work where I realize like, Oh, I have just worked 18 days in a row without taking any downtime. That's not healthy. I need some Sabbath! So then I can justify it by, it's not justifying it, it's reminding myself that it really is valuable. Because it's hard to sometimes see the value in the downtime, but it's necessary. Steph: 13:05 And Beth, you have something that I have no experience with that you are a parent. I see this a lot with parents. They seem like over-scheduled. They have their own schedule. Then they have their kids' schedules. They have so much going on. It does seem like a challenge to actually find that downtime. What is your experience with like scheduling your life and little people's lives? Beth: 13:26 Yeah, so it's easier now that my kids are teenagers, which is the opposite of what a lot of my friends say, but because I have now someone who can drive and have a child who's old enough to drive it, it really helps with a lot of that because their idea of downtime is different than my idea of downtime. So me driving them to sports was not downtime for me, but actually for them participating in sports feels like downtime. So, so it helps. It helps when you can have someone who can drive. Before my kids could drive. This was back when they were both in elementary school and things kind of came to a head because I'm not a playful mom. I'm not the kind of mom who's going to be like, "Hey, let's get the dinosaurs out and pretend like we're in the Pleistocene era." Steph: 14:06 You would play with Legos, right? Beth: 14:07 Well, no, I wouldn't play with Legos because I don't have good spatial... I can't visualize things in space. I don't have good 3D skills. So-- Steph: 14:15 And I do? Beth: 14:18 Well, I, yes, you must have been better than me because when I see a Lego, you know, like the diagram, I never know what to do. I-- Steph: 14:25 Really? We gotta build a Lego set together. It is the funnest thing ever. Beth: 14:29 Oh, it's the worst. Steph: 14:30 But maybe you just need some instruction. I'll teach you how to do it. Beth: 14:33 Well, so that's what happens. When my daughter was little, she has--actually she also has dyslexia, she has this incredible ability to visualize things in three dimensions that I don't have. And I would just be like, what piece do you think we need next? And really she would do it all and I would just sit there with her. But that wasn't, that didn't require us quite as much playfulness as like, and now let's pretend to be cars and drive them around the track. And let's pretend to be the dinosaurs and let's pretend to be, you know, puppies. I just am not good at that kind of thing. I'm not a playful mom. Which is why I'm better with teenagers than with toddlers. Cause I love to like have conversations and to be thinking about things together. All of that is to say because I wasn't a playful mom, I would outsource that. So always had my kids in a lot of different activities cause I wanted them to have fun. I understood the value of that. By the time they got to that point in elementary school where they had a little bit of homework. You know by the time you get to fourth grade you really do need to be spending a little time, a little bit of time on homework. You're now reading to learn instead of learning to read. And you know around that third or fourth grade mark you gotta put a little bit of time into it. And if you're really focused, it really is a little bit of time. And if you're not so focused it's really, really hard. So this is what happened in my family. I had afternoon activities for the kids every day after school and we would go all sorts of different places. We would go to music lessons, we would go TaeKwonDo, we would go instrument lessons and just all sorts of things. So my kids would just have all these different activities and we were always go, go, go, go, go. And then my husband would get off work, he'd come home, we would have dinner, and then it'd be time to do homework. And everybody was so exhausted that even that little bit of elementary school homework was really a struggle. So he asked me very kindly, although I did not receive it this way at the time, he was like, "is there any way they could have fewer activities in the afternoon? Because I think everyone is exhausted and it's really making our evening family time unpleasant because everybody is so exhausted." And I was so angry. I mean I really remember how angry I was. "This is my responsibility to plan these hours and I'm not playful. And so they need these activities and you're just trying to take something away from them and you're trying to make it harder on me." And he was like, can we try it? Like, just experiment and see what happens. And dang it, we tried it. I didn't take them to their afternoon activities for a week and everything was better. Like our family time in the evenings was better, their homework wasn't such a struggle, everyone was happier. That was a very clear example to me of the value of margin. That actually not having enough margin in our life was creating unhappiness and stress and almost that feeling like we were crawling out of our skin because we were so busy. Steph: 17:24 That's so interesting that you, you said multiple times you're like, I'm not a playful mom. So it was almost like you were like, I don't like to play, so I'm trying to like make up for my inadequacies. It's like wow. But then I was thinking about it, I was like, I don't think my mom's a playful mom. I can't remember her like playing right. You know, those things with us. And I'm kinda like the total opposite. Like we did no activities after school. We went home and maybe watch like TV for a little bit. And then we did our homework and we just, we had to entertain ourselves. Like it wasn't like we were left to our own devices like my mom was there but you know, her job wasn't to entertain us and she made that clear to us in a loving and true way. But I can remember growing up we, one of the things we did was dig a big hole in the backyard. It sounds silly but this was a very impressive hole. It's so impressive that recently my brother was at a wedding and his friend was there and his friend was like, Oh do you remember that hole that we used to dig? His friend from school, from years ago, remembers this hole cause you could fit a whole person in the whole like standing up. It was great. It would be cooler down in the hole. It was very cool. You know, something so silly. Like we would figure out ways to entertain ourselves. I remember I used to make, I made a whole band out of cardboard and me and my friend would be like playing the drums, all the instruments and I actually wanted to take gymnastics and TaeKwonDo, things like that and all that. Beth: 18:43 We did gymnastics. Steph: 18:44 Yeah I wasn't, we were like it, we didn't have a lot of money so it was kind of understood that we don't have extra money for those kinds of things. And so there was no other option. You go home and you entertain yourselves and that's what we did. Beth: 18:55 Yeah. I don't know. I haven't made this connection before but I don't know. So I grew up as a latchkey kid. So both of my parents worked. So I would come home from school in the afternoon and I was by myself until people started getting home from work. My brothers, my sister, my parents. I don't know if maybe some of my like, Oh I'm home with the kids. Like I should be coordinating things. I should be the Cruise Director. It might have been like an overreaction to to that. Steph: 19:17 Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Cause my mom was a stay at home mom so she was always there, but she wasn't always like, what can I do for you? How can I help you? It's like no, we figure stuff out for ourselves. Beth: 19:28 And that's success actually. Socially and culturally we might be receiving the message that to be busy as to be is a sign of success. Maybe the ability to figure things out for yourself is really a sign of success. Steph: 19:39 Well speaking of that, one of the things when I was writing my book, I actually talk about really examining what success was in life. And you know, I thought success was you get a job, you get a husband, have kids, have a lot of money, you're successful! And I-- Beth: 19:54 Get a husband? You go to the store and you get one. I'm gonna get some coffee, I'm going to get some creamer, I'm going to get some stuff to make lasagna. And I'm gonna get a husband. Steph: 20:04 Should that not be on my to do list? I still have it on there. Like get a husband. The kids are off there. That's not on there though. But obviously I changed my thought of success because that was what I saw society saying success was, and I was, I've kind of learned throughout my life like I've kind of been fighting what society tells me I need to be doing. I'm like, no, but do I want to be doing that? Like don't show it on me. Do I want that? Beth: 20:28 So when you moved to Tallahassee, that was a re a reordering of your life. Steph: 20:35 Yeah. So that's part of when I was trying to figure out like what does success look like? I could have climbed the corporate ladder with an Apple. I definitely had the opportunity to become a manager to even move with up in corporate. And with each of those positions there's more responsibilities and there's more time commitment and busier and busier and busier. And I realized that wasn't what I wanted in life. And actually something that helped me realize that was Steve Jobs, the CEO of Apple. He was the CEO when I worked for Apple. Beth: 21:07 Successful person. Steph: 21:07 He was pretty successful. Yeah. I think when you think of Apple and especially in the heyday, you think, wow, they were very successful. They had a very innovative leader. And I actually read Steve Jobs, his book and was like, Whoa. It was kind of like, he did some, some wacky stuff and made some pretty poor choices. But, but one of the things that he writes about in his book is his one regret. And I was like, Oh, I'm ready. I'm excited. What is it going to be? Is it going to be like a product he didn't release or you know, you know, something like that. And his biggest regret was his kids not knowing him and not spending enough time with his family. And I was like, wow, I, when I read that I thought I do not want to get on my death bed and realize I didn't spend enough time with my family. I don't want to get to that place where that realization happens. And so that's when I really re-structured my life and said, no, success is family. Family comes in different forms. Family is your blood family, but family is friends that you choose. I have my good friend Daniel that actually took the front cover photo for my book. I call him a brother. He's not, we don't have the same parents, but he's my brother because he is so caring and loving and supporting and that's the brother that I choose. Having that time with family and friends is important, is not something that I want to one day be like, Oh I forgot to do that in my life. That is success and that is important. So yeah, that was a big reason I moved back to Tallahassee was to be closer to my family. I do also want to say though, like I'm saying, family, friends, very successful. I totally believe in that. But I also do think there is something that I get from doing a good job and from having a job and from working. There is a sense of pride and a sense of accomplishment I get from actually getting paid to do what I do. And when I worked for Apple, that was the first time I really realized the importance of that. Before I left Apple, I had gotten a huge raise. I got a 25% raise, no one in the store got this amount of raise and it really blew me away because my store leader had been so impressed with my performance over, you know, the years that I had been there. And to me it spoke volumes. Like he believed in me so much that he was willing to put money out there to show and like, you know, people can say, Oh good job. They can say good job, all they want, that feels great. But actually being able to say like, here's more money because I see you, I hear you and you are doing a good job. Like that was very, there was something that I got from that, that that was really important. I did leave Apple a little while after that. It had nothing to do with that, but it had to do with wanting to be closer to family. Money is important, but it's not like the only factor for me. Like, obviously I left that job even after I got like significant raise. But it does say something. It does speak in in a certain way. Beth: 23:53 Well that's why we think it's important that men and women are paid equally when they do equal work. Right? That there's a sense of not only recognition but validation and valuation that comes with that. So it's, it's not okay to pay a woman less when she's equally qualified and doing the same work. Because she's equally valuable. Steph: 24:13 Ditto. Beth, I'm totally with you girl. Yes. So do you get the same feeling like when you actually get paid to do something, like do you get like a different feeling from when you just do something just because you want to? Beth: 24:25 I think the thing about being paid is that it shows someone else has value, has placed value on it and that's-- Steph: 24:30 Literal value. Beth: 24:32 Yeah. Literal value that's meaningful. It doesn't mean that I'm working for the money because I'm not. I do the work that I think I'm supposed to be doing. The work that I'm called to do. The work that feeds me. The work that leads to me living a full life. One time of year that I think we all kind of give into this over busy-ness is the holidays. Which is so ironic because the holidays should be a time where even culturally we say holidays are about family time and are about, you know, spending time with on what really matters but oh by the way, get your list ready and get out there and get shopping and make sure that you have a party and make sure that you go to parties and make sure that you do these 45 additional things in these four weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Steph: 25:15 I think society like culturally creates these things that we think we should do. I think that's where a lot of this comes from is TV and, well, and money. You know, companies want us to go buy more gifts and things like that. And so I think that's all feeding into the same thing and you know, work more so you can buy more things so you can give more things and be a good person and giving. So it's all, I think they're all kind of intertwined. I agree like that we're coming into like the holiday season and I actually really like the holiday season because it's kind of like a different time of year. Like there's no other time a year like this. But I refuse to give in to the, like, this is what I should do. I do what I wanna do and I, if I want to give someone a gift, I'll give them a gift. If they give me a gift, I'm not going to feel like I have to give them a gift. Beth: 26:00 But I think it's not just the holidays. I think there is this general idea that more is better. We're going to earn more, we're going to spend more. We're going to work more. We're going to do more, more, more and more and more, more. And I think what we're saying is the glamorization of more is actually not the healthiest way for us to go about things that margin is healthy. Sabbath is healthy. Living life more intentionally is healthy. Steph: 26:32 How do we know it's healthier? Beth: 26:33 Well, for me, I know it's healthier because I, I remember what it feels like when I have no margin in my life and when I am allowing myself to overwork and, and to not take Sabbath and to not have, you know, intentional time. I know that doesn't feel as good as when I have margin and when I have Sabbath and when I'm intentional about spending time with my family. Steph: 26:59 Yeah. And I've noticed every year the older I get, the more I realize I just can see patterns in my life. And I can realize when I was focused on the wrong things, when I was trying to do all the things that I, you know, I just was way over worked. I was way over-tired. And so the older I get, the more I realize, you know what? No, I'm done with those. The things I should be doing. Like, what do I want to be doing right now? Beth: 27:22 So you mentioned how Steve Jobs said that his one regret was that he had not spent more time with his family and because of that his kids didn't know him. I guess there are probably examples on the other side too, where people get to the end of their life and they do say like, I wish I had done more with my time. And that, the fear of that feeling is actually part of what motivates me to do more, more and more, more, more, more. But then it gets to a point where it just doesn't feel, Steph: 27:50 It's like a cycle where I'm like, Oh, I need to, I want to be doing more. So I feel like I, you know, at the end of the life, feel good about it. Beth: 27:58 Yeah. I don't want to waste this this time, but being overworked and overly busy is wasting this time. Steph: 28:13 So I'm going to tell you something a little strange and you're gonna be like, "what? Why is she telling me this?" Well if you own a Apple computer and I Mac a MacBook Pro, one of the computers, a Mac Pro maybe. Then there's a new operating system that recently came out called Catalina. And I love this name because I used to have a cat named Catalina, so I think it's the coolest name! But when you upgrade your computer to Catalina, you have a dedicated Podcast App on your computer. And so there'll be a little app that looks like the podcast symbol and you'll be able listen to our podcast right in that app. And you could listen to it before in iTunes, but now it's a dedicated app. It's really nice. And they're adding some new podcast features as well. They're going to do some transcript stuff and some better searchability. So if you haven't upgraded to Catalina yet you might want to do it, make sure you have a backup of your computer. I'm going to say that cause I'm a, you know, I used to work for Apple, so always back up a computer before you do an update. But it's a, it's a nice update and you get some, some really cool features. Beth: 29:08 I don't have any of those things that you just listed off about all the Mac computers. I have an iPhone though, and it has a dedicated Podcast App. Is that the same thing? Steph: 29:17 It's the same thing, but if you're on your computer, it's a, it's a new app, so it's the same thing as on your phone, but it's just on your computer. Beth: 29:23 Okay, so the five people out there who use Macs? Steph: 29:26 Wow. No, there's a lot of people. I would, you know what I need to tell them. When I first met Beth, she had a MacBook air. Was it a MacBook Air? I think it was. It was thin. Yeah. She had a MacBook air, but, and I was all, I was like, Oh good. I got another Apple person. Okay, great. I look at it. She is using window is on her Mac. She has a Mac, but all she's doing is running windows. But you can do on a Mac in Bootcamp. You can do that. Yes. I was like, Oh my gosh, we can't be friends. But we somehow we stuck it out and we were able to get along. I think I can get along with her cause she has an iPhone so it's like it's okay. Beth: 29:59 Right. So some people are Apple people and some people aren't. So I mean I have like Apple devices because I do think iPhones are really easy to use. But my laptop--I've handed my Mac book down and now I have a Dell laptop. So I think that should be our caller question for this episode. So you know, you can always call in and answer any of the questions we've asked in any of the episodes. But this time--come on y'all be on my side, be on my side! Steph: 30:24 So what are we asking? Are you a Mac or a PC person? Beth: 30:27 Yeah. Are you a Mac or a PC person when it comes to computer? Right. Steph: 30:30 Cause the phone would be Apple or Android. Beth: 30:32 Right. And come on PC people call in and defend me! Steph: 30:36 Apple people, I need you. I need you here. I need to hear from you. Okay. So if you want to call in and let us know which side you're on, if you're on Steph's or Beth's-- we will love you either way. By the way, I do have PC friends. It's not like a split or divide, so that number is (850) 270-3308 and that's our voicemail. You can call that anytime and you can answer any of our questions from past episodes. Steph: 31:06 We like to end with Questions for Reflection. These are questions we've written based on today's show. Beth is going to read them out. She'll leave a little space between each question for you to pause and answer the questions for yourself out loud or however you like. We also have a downloadable PDF on our website, dospod.us that you can download. Beth: 31:26 #1: Do you feel overworked or over-scheduled? Why? Do you want that to change? #2: Do you think you have to be overworked or over-scheduled in order to be successful in life? #3: What does success look like to you? How does it feel? #4: How do you balance your need for recognition and validation with your need for rest? Do you allow yourself to rest? Steph: 31:56 This has been the Discovering Our Scars Podcast. Thanks for joining us. Bye. Bye. Bye. Beth: 32:05 At least you didn't bark that time. Quotable
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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