Show Notes
Questions for Reflection
Each episode we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. You might pause the podcast and answer them right then and there, but if you keep a journal (Steph and Beth both do), you might find one of these PDFs useful. Choose the orientation that fits best in your journal
Transcript
​Beth:
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars Podcast. Steph: Where we have honest conversations about things that make us different. Beth: Our mission is to talk about things you might relate to but that you don't hear being discussed in other places. Steph: Our hope is that you're encouraged to have honest conversations with people in your own life. I'm Steph. Beth: And I'm Beth. Steph, what's our topic today? Steph: We are talking about is there power in prayer? Beth: Ooh, I like that topic. Steph: It sounds controversial and I was already told by someone that, Oh, that's a controversial topic. And I said, but isn't that the whole point of our podcast? So I'm a little nervous but also I still feel like this is a good topic that we want to talk about. Beth: Is it controversial because we're asking it as a question? Would it be less controversial if we had a statement: There is power in prayer. Steph: Yes. I don't think it would be controversial if we had a statement, but I think it's more intriguing to have a question. Beth: Well, and we are asking the question. Steph: I think by having a question, it's more of a discussion. But if you just have the statement, then there's no discussion. It's like, okay, then there's power. Alright, nothing more to talk about. And that's, I think the whole point of our podcast is that we are here to talk about things that people may not want to talk about because it might question their faith too much. It might question things that they don't wanna necessarily contemplate. But I'm willing to talk and contemplate it today with you, Beth. Beth: Thanks. I too am willing and ready to contemplate, maybe even meditate on, the question: Is there power in prayer? Steph: Well, I like what you said there, Beth, because when we talk about prayer, we are talking specifically about praying, you know, to God would be, in my opinion, what we're talking about. But I also think meditation is very similar for me. Meditating, prayer are very similar. I look at them almost as the same thing for me. I know meditation is such a diverse word. It can mean so many things to so many different people and people meditate in so many different ways. To me, meditating is taking time out of your day to take a breath, to center yourself, to center on breath and be in the present. And when I pray, that's what I'm doing. I'm taking time out of my day to be present, to think through the things that are troubling me, the things that I need to process and I'm bringing those to God. So in my mind they're very similar in the action and the results. Beth: I think part of it is is really just semantics. I think that for some people prayer is a really loaded word. And for some people meditation is a really loaded word. And so I think if we were to talk about it amongst our friends that there would be some people who would b--e more comfortable saying prayer and there'll be some people more comfortable saying meditation. The only real distinction I've ever heard, I'm just now thinking about this, but I, sorry, I'm, I'm hesitating because I'm trying to decide if I think that it's true. Some people who don't want to promote the practice of meditation will say, well, in meditation you're just filling yourself up with yourself. Right? And I don't actually think that that's consistent with what I know about meditation and that's why I'm more comfortable seeing them as synonymous, meditation and prayer. I do think that that meditation is more like what I would consider contemplative prayer where you are really having an extended time of listening and stillness as opposed to prayer, which can be very ... well prayer can, can really be more conversational than meditation. For me, that's been my sort of difference in approaches to the two. But I, I have sitting in front of me a book that actually is from the 1980s and they basically--it's called A Guide to Prayer for Ministers and Other Servants--and they basically say prayer and meditation are, are similar. They, they suggest that you "prayerfully ponder a scripture passage" and then they say "meditate upon it in such a way that it may flow into and through your life, like oil through a sieve that leaves its essence upon every fine part. This is meditation." I mean, that's, you know, even then, even in the 1980s that the words were synonymous, even though I think there are groups of Christians who see meditation as new age and scary and not of God, but I don't. I think that's maybe fading. Steph: Yeah, I was going to say, I feel like that used to definitely be a thing, like, you know, like yoga and meditation were like, Oh, that's like anti-Christian. And I feel like that's not a thing anymore. It's so much in our daily sphere that I don't feel like that's a issue anymore. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it's all just worked out. Beth: It's true. It's not an issue for you and I, so maybe it's just not an issue anymore. Steph: It's not an issue for me, but it never was an issue for me. I never looked at it like, Oh, that's the Devil. Although I don't do yoga, but I'm not against it. I think it's a cool thing that my mom really likes it. Beth: Yeah. Oh, I think yoga has been very beneficial for people. I'm not flexible Steph: because you don't do yoga. Beth: What is my current excuse? My current excuse is that I just don't have time to add one more thing to my life. That's my current excuse. Maybe when I finish Seminary, let's talk in a year. Steph: I love that you jumped on the train to start a podcast, but with me when I asked you a year ago, but now it's like I was totally willing to start a podcast, but I just don't have time for yoga. Beth: Yeah, no, this is, this is the last thing that I could put on my list, so you got in in the nick of time. Steph: Beth being a pastor, I think this is a great question for you. Do you have a definition of prayer? What is prayer? Beth: I think prayer is any kind of intentional communication with God. I think that we also can receive information and communication in prayer that might be controversial, but I, I do believe that. I do think there's an intention element to it that makes it different than just breathing or living or there's an intention and intent to communicate. Steph: Nice. I would agree with that. Do you use any kind of special devices or anything when you pray or do you just kind of like sit down and, and also, how do you pray? Like I know growing up, the way I was taught to pray is you kneel at your bed and you put your hands together and that's how you pray. Is that, how do you pray? Beth: That would be one way to pray. So I pray in different ways. A lot of it depends just on the moment. So I have no problem praying to God like while I'm driving or while I'm working. I do intentionally start every day with a few minutes of quiet and some reading, whether I'm reading the Bible or I'm reading something on a devotional book. I also have an app that I really, really like called Pray As You Go. And that's helpful if I am not, especially if I'm not able to just be in the quiet because they use prayerful music and then they have like a voice that's, it'll read to you from the scripture for the day and then ask questions, thought-provoking questions. And so I like that app a lot. I use that probably four or five times a week. Steph: I have an app called Calm that's more like a meditation app that I really like. I don't use it that often because it's a yearly paid subscription thing and that's a little too much for me, but it does have this feature where you could have all these like soothing sounds. And I really like that cause it helps kind of center me when there's just so much noise around me. Like I think right now I have like like rain sounds. I like that. And you can, there's also like bedtime stories that will like lull you to sleep, which is very cool. I don't have a problem with sleeping now because my dog has me on a schedule. Beth: So, you know, the neat thing about the rain sounds that I would, I'll just put this out there for you just to think about maybe the next time you're hearing the rain sounds is in our Christian tradition, water has a lot of meaning and the fact that that water can be so cleansing and restorative and necessary. And so I tend to think about that if I have rain sounds going. Steph: Beth, you were just talking about how you pray different locations and especially at the beginning of the day, do you pray a certain prayer? Is that like what you do? Because I know there's a lot of people find a lot of meaning in like kind of mantras and things that are the same thing that they're doing all the time. So I'm curious if you, you know, what that looks like for you? Beth: Yeah, that's a good question. I, I don't, I don't have a, a set prayer that I use. I have used that as a spiritual practice at times. There's this one prayer that's especially meaningful to me that we call the Covenant Prayer. And in it you're really saying to God like, just make my life what you want it to be. Make me who you want me to be. I'm going to give all of it over to you. That is a prayer that can be hard to pray sincerely, but when I have been in the habit of praying it sincerely, it has been very meaningful to me. And then there are, there are prayers that just people who have been, who have lived lives deeply embedded with God have written some really beautiful prayers. Like Saint Francis has a prayer that we can put a link to in the show notes about, you know, that same idea make my life about something other than just myself. Saint Theresa has a prayer, there's a Celtic prayer. There are some that you'll see pop up in the Christian tradition over and over again. But I don't think there's any requirement that we pray a prayer that someone else has written or that we pray the same prayer every day or that we pray only the Lord's Prayer. Which is, you know, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name," that prayer. I think if it's a useful tool then great. But if it's not useful then I don't think there's a mandatory need to use it. Steph: Well, growing up that's what I was taught was the Lord's Prayer is how you pray. And so I would, that would be how I would pray. And then I started realizing as I got older, I'm like, I'm just repeating this, these words, but I don't, I'm not a thinking about the words, I just haven't memorized. And so there's no like meaning for it for me. So I don't say it as much anymore, but sometimes I still say it as a centering tool. I also really like the Serenity Prayer that we say in Celebrate Recovery. It's a nice kind of centering. So for me, I will use those kind of memorized prayers sometimes to help center me. And then to really have that personal conversation with God is, it's kind of like a practice that I get into, but I don't always, but sometimes when my mind is just so full of things, I repeat those, those tried and true memorized prayers to get me ready and center me a little bit. Beth: Do you know that the, that the cool Pope, the current Pope that he has suggested that Roman Catholics say the Lord's prayer differently? Steph: You had said that to me. Yeah. What? I forgot what it was. Beth: Pope Francis says that God doesn't lead us in to temptation. So we say lead us not into temptation and Francis says that's not how the Lord works. And so he has suggested, in fact, I think it, I think some Roman Catholic churches have already made this change. So now they'll say, "do not let us fall into temptation." I actually really like that. I think theologically that's a sound change. Steph: You hear the word "prayer" and you hear these you know, written prayers and all those kinds of things and it could, it could really make someone think "this is how you pray." Would you say there is a right way to pray? Beth: I would not say there's a right way to pray because I don't think there's a wrong way to pray. You know, you talked about using the Serenity Prayer as like a stepping off point, like our a centering point. And it reminded me that when my father who passed away a few years ago when he, when his health really started to decline, he had not been Roman Catholic since he was a boy. He had been a Lutheran for a long time and at that point was an Episcopalian and he asked for a Rosary because he wanted to connect with that way of praying from when he was a child. And so, you know, you said that when you were growing up, you were taught you there is a way to pray, you pray the Lord's prayer. That probably wasn't intended to be: This is the only way you can pray, but rather this is a tool. You know, you have to start somewhere when you're teaching kids. And so yeah. So it was surprising to me that deeply embedded in my dad that it was still a way for him to connect even though he hadn't prayed that way in a really long time. Steph: I think you can come to God in any way. I don't think there's a proper way to talk to him. I think. I believe you can talk to him. Like you talked to a friend, you know he's the ultimate friend. He's the ultimate everything. Beth: Yes. "He" being just a gender neutral way to refer to God, not trying to assign gender to God? Steph: Correct. Yeah, I don't. What term do you use? That's a good question. Beth: I'm struggling with it because I don't want to suggest that God is only male. Linguistically for a long time "he" has been the gender-neutral pronoun, but it's not that way linguistically anymore. And so it's a little bit awkward for me still to know exactly how to navigate that. So I don't know. So sometimes there's just that footnote in my mind of oh yeah, I don't mean that as assigning gender. I just, I just mean God is without gender. Steph: It's tough cause what do you, yeah, what do you say? They? Beth: I end up saying God a lot. Steph: Yeah. I like to use the word. Beth: So there, there isn't a right way to pray or a wrong way to pray, but there are places I do not pray. Steph: Oh, do tell. Beth: As much as I love the symbolism of water and rebirth and cleansing, I do not pray in the shower. Do you ever pray in the shower? Steph: Yeah. Beth: You do? Steph: Why don't you pray in the shower? Beth: I don't pray in the shower for the same reason that I don't pray when I'm on the toilet. Speaker 2: Oh, we are learning so much about you Beth. I'm going to need more information because now I'm like questioning, should I be praying it in the bathroom? Oh no. Should I? Steph: I mean if you're comfortable with it, it is fine. Steph: Why? But what's the reasoning that you don't like doing that? Beth: Because --I'm going to tell you my reason, but I just want to offer the caveat that it may not be a good reason. Steph: Okay. Beth: But this is just my reason. Steph: Okay. Beth: So is this a little bit nerdy? But in the Old Testament when God is talking to Moses, he tells Moses like, have your priests cover themselves up. And like when you're going up the stairs and you've got on your robes, like I don't need to see your junk and. Steph: Junk is in the Bible?! Beth: Junk is not in the Bible. That's a very poor Beth paraphrase. And so that just kind of stuck with me. And so I feel like when I'm in those places where personal areas are more exposed, that like that is not a comfortable time for me to pray. And also if that were the only time that I was stopping to think about God, I don't think that would be good. Steph: So do you think it's disrespectful in your mind? Beth: It feels disrespectful to me. Yeah. I don't think that it isn't necessarily disrespectful for someone else to do it that way. I just, because I have that association, I feel like that isn't a a time or place that's appropriate for me. Steph: Interesting. Yeah. Cause to me it almost seems like it's a very vulnerable place to pray and so it could be even more meaningful because you are at a very vulnerable state. But that's very cool to hear your kind of side of it. Beth: I have to think about that some am I really just not wanting to be vulnerable in a vulnerable space? I have to think about that. That could be, Steph: I mean my dog's in there when I'm showering, so... Beth: Yeah, it's true. And I have lived with toddlers and so I know what it's like to have no privacy. Steph: And God still is watching you even though you're not talking to him. Beth: Right. And I still, I mean, I believe that God created me and that nothing about my body shames God or embarrasses God. So there's a disconnect there, right. That I, I hold those two ideas at the same time. Nothing about my body shames God. Oh, but I shouldn't pray when I'm-- Steph: So are you shameful? Is that what it is more? Beth: I mean it must be because I don't think God's ashamed. Yeah. You said that when you were growing up, you learned to pray by kneeling by your bedside. What about at meals? Did you pray then? Steph: I think we did growing up, we would usually pray before a meal, but as I got older I started thinking why, why are we doing this? And so I don't necessarily, I don't really pray before meals anymore because to me it feels like a "should" like you should pray before meal, but I haven't really figured out like the reason why and made it a want to. So I don't really pray before meals unless I'm with a Christian and they pray, then I will respectfully pray with them. But I do think there is value in giving thanks for your food. I've read some things and it's been a long time so I don't even know where I read it and I don't even know if it's still fact or if it was even fact then. But I've read that by taking a moment before you eat to pray over your food and be thankful for your food, it can actually help with digestion and help you make better choices with your food. So I do think that makes a lot of sense. I like the idea. I still don't do it, but I think that's a cool concept and is the first thing that made me think, Oh well that makes sense. Beth: To understand why you don't do shoulds, people could listen to Episode Six cause we talked about "Don't Should On Yourself." Steph: We definitely are shoulding a lot. Beth: We do pray before meals and we pray even if we're out to eat, which there was a season where that was uncomfortable for me, but I feel awkward-- Steph: Was it Fall or Spring? Beth: It was like 2005-6, but I feel awkward now eating if I haven't paused to pray. And I totally get that it's not necessarily meaningful for everyone, but I find that in my life there are very few times--prayer is The time when I really stop to remember that there's a big God and it's not me. That idea of submission. And so praying before meal is one of those. And, and recognizing with gratitude that I didn't grow this food. I didn't harvest this food, I didn't deliver this food. I didn't, you know, sometimes I didn't even put the food together as a meal and just pausing to remember how dependent I am on other people and on systems that function well. And you know, all of that is meaningful to me. I did have, as part of a Seminary class actually we had to pray the Salat which is the Muslim prayers that happened throughout the day. Submission is a huge feature in that type of prayer. And there is a physical submission like you talked about kneeling by your bedside when you were a little girl. So there is actually a physical posture that has taken and probably we've all seen this on TV shows or on the news or whatever, you know, that they try to pray facing Mecca and that they get very low to the ground. And what I learned when I was actually trying to do it as a practice is, there's a way that you have to cross your feet. It's, I mean it's fairly uncomfortable and the point is a little bit to be uncomfortable and to be in a submissive, vulnerable position before God. Doing that practice helped me realize how, how infrequently I intentionally mindfully practice submission. And so praying before a meal can be that for me. Steph: I also liked the idea that it's a time that reminds you to pray. It's that time in the day that, because there's a lot of times where I'll just forget about praying and then once I finally remember, Oh yeah, I need to pray about all this anxiety and stress that I'm under and take some time to center. Once I do, I feel so refreshed and like, Oh, why do I forget to do that? If I was intentional about doing it before meals, I would have that built into my day without having to, you know, make some of note or reminder, which would be a good idea to do. Actually put a reminder in my phone. Right? Don't forget. Beth: You could, but really you're being reminded by the anxiety and by the stress. Steph: I don't want it to get to that point. I really don't want to. Actually there's a feature on the Apple watch called Breathe, where by default it tells me one minute, every hour reminds me to breathe. So I could use that as a reminder to pray. Beth: Yeah. You could. I don't have, mine doesn't come up all that often. I must've changed it. Steph: Yeah, you can change in the Settings. Beth: It only comes up a few times a day, but that is, that is what I do. I always, I don't necessarily stop and do the deep breaths, but I'm like, Oh, it says it's time to breathe. Let me, you know, let me pause for just a second. Even even if it really is just a sixty-second pause in the day, it can be restorative. You mentioned that you saw somewhere that there was a study about how digestion is improved. Steph: Yes. And I'm making that statement with having no reference to what that was and it was a very long time ago. So I can't put a link to that in the show notes, although I could probably Google and find it again. Beth: Maybe, but sort of a general knowledge idea? But there are also studies that show that with having prayer as a practice in your life that your brain actually looks different on scans and we can put links to that in the show notes too. Steph: Good different? Beth: Good. Different, yeah. Healthy, different. And I think that that's true whether you pray or whether you meditate. I think the key is that it's when it's part of an ongoing practice for you; a practice of mindfulness. Steph: So I think the heart of the question is there power in prayer. I think the heart of that, like to me when I pray it is powerful. When I pray and I stop and I reflect, I, I have anxiety go away, I have fears go away. There's definitely power when I finally take those moments to just stop and reflect. But I think there's a lot of, there's some danger in prayer in using the word, you know, pray for X, pray for this. I've seen that a lot and it, it gets frustrating cause I hear people say like, you know, pray for, for healing for this or pray for this to not happen to, you know, this country or whatever. And I think that's really what we want to discuss here is that. Go Beth. Beth: I mean, I think that's what's controversial about the question. Is there a power in prayer? Because you know, you'll meet some people who will say prayer can change God's mind. That's why some people will pray for healing because they think if-- Steph: if you keep saying it, then God will get the message that he should heal someone-- Beth: if, if enough people pray or if you, sometimes you'll hear Christians even say like, they're going to "claim it." That "I'm going to claim that God is going to perform this healing." And it's the kind of thing that is easy to dismiss until you see at work and then you go, Oh wow, okay. So I don't, I don't know about changing God's mind. I mean, there is that, it does happen in scripture, but for me, I would say I would echo what you just said, which is that prayer changes me. Steph: Yeah. I wouldn't say prayer changes God. I think God is always who God is. And I also think prayer is complicated because there's times where I'm intentionally praying or I'm talking to God and there's times where I'm not necessarily, like even when I don't say my worries and all those things to God, he knows them, he always knows them. And sometimes I'll pray that I'll say, God, you know what's on my heart right now. You know, the struggles I'm having and I just need to acknowledge it to you, even though you already know I need to say I need to say it and I need to put it, give it to you. Just that simple act, not even saying each thing, but just that simple act can be helpful for me. Beth: Well, there is a Bible verse that says that when we don't know what to pray, that actually God's spirit is already praying with us and for us, and it's this great line about how the spirit prays "with sighs too deep for words." This really, I think that's really poetic. Steph: I guess that's that's what I mean. There's like, there's my intentional prayer and then there's the act of being open to God's presence all the time. And I think that that's kind of at the place where I'm at is I'm not praying on a, not even a daily basis. I'm not intentionally setting aside time in praying, but I'm open to God's voice and action in my life, even though I'm not asking for things that are, I'm not thanking him for things. Those actions are still happening cause I'm open to his influence in my life. Beth: You mentioned about, you know, hearing people say, well let's pray for this or pray for that and you know, kind of hashtag pray for blank. That I think has become a scapegoat line in society. Like when there's-- Steph: a natural disaster-- Beth: or, or when there's a mass shooting and politicians will say, you know, "Oh our prayers, our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims" and it's like well, where's you're action? Steph: I think it's become watered down. I think there's so much power in prayer. There's so much value in prayer, but it's also been used and watered down by just that automatic, I'll pray for you or that automatic "our thoughts and prayers are with you" because that's what we say. But that's not what we mean. Like we may say it, I see a lot of people say it, but are you really going to pray? Is that really happening? And I think that's what's kind of watered down that phrase and can be damaging when we just throw that around without having any action behind it and just using it as almost like a, you know, "How are you?" "Good." kind of thing. Like it just a casual like small talk almost using it as a small talk term. That to me is really frustrating when people just kind of throw away around those terms without really having meaning behind it. Beth: So I would say in that case, prayer doesn't have power because they don't really mean it. Yeah. Right. So there's, if there's no intention to actually intentionally, thoughtfully bring someone's problems into your own mind and to meditate on them or to think about them with God like that, then there wouldn't be power in that prayer. So just saying, Oh yeah, our thoughts and prayers or our prayers go out to the victims, I don't think that that's good enough unless it's really followed up by action, Steph: Especially coming from a politician. Let's see some action. Exactly. I also have a really tough question for you, Beth, and you being the pastor among the two of us. You get to, you get to be asked. So what happens when someone prays for God to bring healing to someone and that doesn't happen? Beth: Do you want me to give you the cliche answer or do you want me to tell you what I really think? Or do you want both? Steph: Both. Cliche first please. Beth: So the very unsatisfying response, and we're probably going to get flack for this. I'm probably gonna get flack for this. And so-- Steph: Take down the time code right here so you can remember to give us black at this moment. Beth: So if this offends you, just know I'm not saying it to offend you, just this is just the real truth of it. So the cliche answer, it's not that it's cliche because it isn't true, but it is so unsatisfactory to me that I would put it in that category of cliche, which is that in the afterlife God brings healing. So your loved one didn't get healed on this earth, but now they are whole because they are with God. That is true. But it is not very satisfying. And it was okay with me that God didn't heal people in this life until I met people who God had healed in this life. Because it adds this feeling of randomness to it once you know someone who has been miraculously healed. And also it adds this element of is there some human agency in that? Is there, did they pray better? Did more people pray? Did they say different words? Did they use different scripture? Like why are some people healed and some people aren't healed? So like I said, I think that the, the sort of like pat you on the head and send you on it, answer is "well eventually everyone gets healed". But I also recognize that that's not very satisfactory in everyday life. And so what I have experienced is that God sits with me in that discomfort. God is present in that outrage. How unfair it is that radiation and chemotherapy work for some people and it doesn't work for others. God sits with me in that frustration and discomfort. Or you know, the woman I met this week who's only in her forties and her husband, the love of her life, died unexpectedly. Right? Like why did God let that happen? Or God didn't necessarily let that happen, I don't think that's exactly the right way to put it, but I know that God is with her in that grief and pain. Steph: Really what's important is to be there for those people in your life and to sit with them and cry with them and be angry with them and go through those stages. So I don't think there's any answers to, you know, God healing this, not healing that. And I don't even look at it that way, like God healed you, but not you. Cause I think that's very hurtful and a unproductive place to be. I know for, I can speak on my life, in my book, Discovering My Scars. I talk about having been abused three times in my childhood and you know, I could look back and I could say, why did God let that happen? Beth: Right. Steph: And I have, and I have, I've contemplated that and I've come to the place of realizing God was with me during those times. God was crying with me. God was hurting. I wouldn't change those things. I wouldn't. I don't sit there and say, God, like this shouldn't have happened. I am right here, I am recording this podcast because those things happened to me because I had hard times in my life that I had to learn who I fully was in embrace all of me and learn to be whole and to learn what recovery was and what healing is. And so for me, it's the long road. At the time it's like, Oh my gosh, that's horrible. Why would that happen? But as I've continued to trust God and to follow his path, I've realized, wow, this is brought me to a place, like, honestly, when I was younger, I could never see my life past 33 I never thought like I would, I just couldn't imagine living that long. It's just like, life is too hard. How can I even be? I'm now 33 and I'm living like a life I could have never imagined. And I'm in such a good place, a lot about things have happened, but I am so happy with where my life is and wouldn't change a thing. So it's tough. It's tough in those moments to say, you know, it's easy to say God didn't X, Y, Z, but the longer I've lived life, I've seen that there are reasons and God doesn't just answer prayers in a black and white way. It's not just like I asked for a pony, so I got a pony. We get what we need. And again, that's so cliche, but you know, I can ask him for all the, the stuff in the world, but he's, you know, he's not a genie in a bottle kind of thing. Beth: God's not a vending machine. Steph: If he was, I wonder how much it would cost? Beth: So what do you think Steph, is there power in prayer? Steph: All I can speak to is what I've seen in my life. I believe God is the most powerful and I have a direct connection to speak with him. We all do. We all can have that connection. And I think it's so powerful when I am connected to him and speaking directly to him. That's, that's powerful. So I, for me, there is much power in prayer. Beth: I read a story recently by pastor who as a child became, I actually don't know if he was born blind in his left eye or if he became blind. But anyway, the point is he grew up in the church and he grew up with people praying that he would have his sight restored and demanding that God would restore sight and sometimes suggesting that maybe his blindness was some in some way a punishment or that it was in some way, you know, that God wasn't answering that prayer because of something that this child was failing to do. I would say that those prayers had power in a really negative way. They had power in a, in a very human way. I think more generally when we're saying "Is there power in prayer?" I would say yes for all the reasons that you said. It is restorative, enlightening. It is a way for us to build our relationship with God and it helps us process what's happening in our life. And I do think that it is a way that God also then can communicate with us, which may be a whole different podcast episode, but so I would say yes, there is power in prayer in a lot of different ways. Steph: I also think there's power in community prayer as well. People getting together and praying in a group, whether it's gonna change the outcome of whatever, I don't know. But I know that it has a change in those people to have that shared experience of we all are centering on this thing and I think there is power in that when it's done right for the right reasons. Beth: I think for me there's power in prayer. Maybe that's just the bottom line to it. Steph: Well, I also wanted to point out that I don't, I try not to pray for a particular outcome. I try to pray for God's will to be done and for comfort for me for whatever that might be. Because I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. And I also like I lost my college roommate to cancer. I'm like, she was such a, I always, she was like in her twenties when she died. It's like, why? Why did that happen? But I know that she had such an impact on so many people and lived so much life while she was here. I, you know, I would have loved for her to stay on this earth for so much more time, but I know that she had such an impact on people that was so necessary when she was here. And so I'm not mad at God, you know? It's sad. It's definitely a whole process. But I just feel blessed that she was in my life for the time that she was. Beth: But you could pray for a specific outcome because God is big enough to handle that. Right? Steph: Yeah. Yeah. When I pray for a specific outcome, I feel like I'm putting myself in the position of God. Beth: Yeah except that you can't put yourself in the position of God, so there's no danger in it. Steph: And I don't think there's danger for other people to do it. For me it feels like I am, you know, almost telling God what to do. Like I know best and it's like that's so silly when I think about it. I am such a silly human thinking that I have any clue as to the plan on this particular thing. Beth: Right. So you're really praying the Serenity Prayer, right? Yeah. Steph: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Beth: That's really at the heart of it, right? Steph: I don't want to just pray for X, Y, Z kind of thing. I just want to pray for comfort in whatever the outcome might be. Beth: I also agree with you that sometimes prayer is answered in a way that we couldn't have expected. And what we find is that it is better than what we had hoped for. That's my motherhood story, right? That I prayed to be a mom and was led to become a mom by adoption after infertility and infertility treatments and all that. And I mean, I have, I have said this to my kids. I have, I have said this when I've been speaking to women's groups--my kids are better than what my husband and I would have made with our biology and our DNA and our genes. Right? And so they're so amazing. I can't imagine not being mom to these specific two humans. And so I feel like it was a prayer that was answered far beyond what I was actually asking for. Steph: Thank you for joining us today for our conversation about prayer. I do want to remind you that my book Discovering My Scars the paperback will be out in January and bookstores, but the ebook and audiobook are out now here in October, so we will have links in the show notes to how, how to get those so you can get on any place that eBooks are available in anywhere. Audio books are available as well. Beth: I love audio books and I'm so excited to be able to listen to Discovering My Scars as an audio book. That's going to be really good. Steph: It was a lot of work to record, FYI, but I'm, I'm proud of it, so hopefully, hopefully you enjoy it. Oh, and I'm reading it. I guess I should, the audio book is me, my voice reading it with special guest, Beth Demme, reading the foreword. Beth: It's so disappointing when someone writes a really powerful book and then lets someone else read it. It's disappointing. So I'm proud of you for doing the hard work and reading it yourself. It's important that it's in your voice. Steph: Yeah, that was important to me from the very beginning. So I'm, I'm glad I got to do that. We have a challenge for our listeners here. So this is a, this is a big challenge. You guys ready? You ready to hear it? I didn't hear anybody, but hopefully. So our challenge for you is after you listen to our podcast, when you finish, take five minutes and think of one friend in your life that would benefit from listening to our podcast. Take time and think about it. Then we want you to go out this week and tell that friend about the podcast. Either grab their phone, download it (with permission) to their phone or email them or call them or text them or FaceTime them or communicate in some way. There are so many ways to communicate these days. Do it to please. That is our challenge for you. Beth: If you know that they use an iPhone, you can just text the link to them: dospod.us/Apple. If you know that they use an Android device, then you would just text them: dospod.us/Google. Steph: Exactly. Those links will take you to the app podcast. Beth: Steph has made it super easy! Steph: I try. Beth: Speaking of apps, Steph: Oh yes, Beth: Let's do a caller question. Steph: Okay. Beth: Where we have folks call in. Remind us, what's the number? Steph: Oh yes. So we have a voicemail number that you can call in answer our question. Oh, well let's ask the question first and then I'll say the number. Beth: Okay. So the question for this episode is: What is your favorite smartphone application? Also known as an app. I was gonna say good application. Steph: I really am only asking this question because I wanted to say my answer. So mine is very silly. There's probably better ones out there, but I was like, Oh, this is my answer. This is great. So since this app has been out, I've been playing it. I don't like games that much, but there's this one game that I play all the time. I'm on level like a thousand something. It's called Panda Pop and it is mindless and amazing and I love the app and it's basically you just pop these little balloons and save the baby pandas and. Beth: Except that when you fail you don't save the baby pandas. It's so stressful. Steph: That's not my reason. I don't play to save the pandas, but I'm glad that they're saved. That's my favorite app. So we'd love to hear what your favorite app is or the answer to any question we've asked on any of the podcasts. You can call our voicemail number and the number is (850) 270-3308. Steph: Can I share my favorite app? Steph: Yes. Beth, what is yours? Beth: I don't play Panda Pop because it stresses me out about the babies, but I have, for years now, I have played Words With Friends. Steph: Still!? You're playing that!? You're the one. Beth: I'm not "The One." It's a, it's a lot of people play this app. In fact, I'm betting, I'm guessing that there are probably people who are listening to the podcast who love to play Words With Friends and so I just want to say. Steph: Well, if they do call in and let us know cause I didn't know anyone played that still-- Beth: Stephanie doesn't love words in case you can't tell him. So if you want to find me on words with friends, I'm BethDinFL. Steph: At the end of each episode we end with Questions For Reflection. These are some questions we have written that talk about today's show that you are welcomed to answer on your own. You can answer them in the car, you can answer 'em on paper. You can also go to our website where you can download a PDF version of the questions that we have for today and if you don't want to answer them then we'll see on our next episode. Beth: Question #1: Do you pray/meditate? Why or why not? #2: Do you pray in the bathroom or other places people might think of as odd? #3: Do you set aside time to pray or meditate? #4: How do you feel after a time of prayer or meditation? And #5: Have you ever felt you had a prayer answered? How did you know? Steph: This has been the discovering our scars podcast? Thanks for joining us. Quotable
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Meet StephMental Health Advocate. Author. Podcast Host. DIYer. Greyhound Mom. 
Meet BethI'm a mom who laughs a lot, mainly at myself. #UMC Pastor, recent Seminary grad, public speaker, blogger, and sometimes lawyer. Learning to #LiveLoved. 
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