E106: What's in it for ME?

Questions for Reflection

In each episode, we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. Our supporters over at Buy Me a Coffee now have exclusive access to the PDF versions of all our Questions for Reflection. Join us today!  
 
1. Why do you listen to this podcast? What’s in it for you?
2. Do small incentives motivate you to take action, like Beth’s Target story?
3. How do you motivate yourself to do something hard or uncomfortable, like spending time with extended family?
4. How often do you do something even if there’s nothing in it for you? 

Transcript

​Beth Demme (00:03):
Welcome to The Discovering Our Scars Podcast.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:05):
Where we share personal experiences so we can learn from each other. I'm Steph.
 
Beth Demme (00:08):
And I'm Beth.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:09):
I've been in recovery for 15 years and am the author of Discovering My Scars, my memoir about how what's done in the darkness eventually comes to light. I'm a lawyer turned pastor who's all about self-awareness and emotional health because I know what it's like to have neither of those things. Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone through recovery program together. And when I wanted to start a podcast, she was the only name that came to mind as cohost.
 
Beth Demme (00:30):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot from sharing personal experiences with Steph over the years.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:35):
We value honest conversations and we hope you do too. On today's show, we're going to have an honest conversation titled What's In It For Me? Then we'll share a slice of life and the show will close with questions for reflection. We will invite you to reflect in the conversation in your own life.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:49):
Hey, Beth, did you get the COVID-19 vaccine?
 
Beth Demme (00:53):
I got the COVID-19 vaccine and I am a little bit anxiously awaiting my turn to get a booster.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:02):
Are you high risk?
 
Beth Demme (01:03):
No, it's not my turn yet.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:06):
Which one did you get?
 
Beth Demme (01:07):
I got Moderna.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:08):
So you can just get it. I think Pfizer, you have to be within a high-risk group.
 
Beth Demme (01:12):
I'm not sure, but it has to be a certain number of months after you got the second one and all that and so-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:18):
I actually learned yesterday that depression puts you at higher risk for worse severe illness from COVID, so that is a reason that you can get the booster. So hey, go depression. I can get the booster. It's on the CDC's website.
 
Beth Demme (01:36):
You're not depressed about that?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:38):
I was, yes, when I read it. My friend sent it to me. I was like, "Well, now I'm depressed, okay? And I really need my booster." So I'm up for it in December. So you got the vaccine. Were they giving like a gift card or something? What was your motivation to get it? What was in it for you to get the vaccine?
 
Beth Demme (01:58):
My health is what was in it for me and the health of the people around me and the health of my community. That's what was in it for me.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:04):
And was there a gift card?
 
Beth Demme (02:06):
There was no gift.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:07):
You didn't get to win the lottery?
 
Beth Demme (02:10):
I didn't get a gift card. I didn't get a free steak dinner.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:15):
What?
 
Beth Demme (02:16):
I didn't get anything except my medicine.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:18):
Well, I donate blood and they typically give out t-shirts and a $10 gift card.
 
Beth Demme (02:24):
And that's totally why you're doing that, right?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:25):
That is actually the reason I do it because I get something and that's what in it for me.
 
Beth Demme (02:30):
You're like, "Hey, this is the nicest cheap t-shirt that I've gotten in a while."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:35):
I'm not going to lie. The last time I donated blood, I was excited about the t-shirt. I usually don't even know what the t-shirt is, but I was excited about this t-shirt because it is a takeoff of the Friends logo, the TV show and it says fighter, but in the same font as the Friends logo because it's the breast cancer awareness ... It's the one for October.
 
Beth Demme (02:56):
October? October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:59):
Yeah, so I was excited about that one. I should have worn it today, dang it. I'm joking. For me, at least. That's exactly what you said why you got the COVID vaccine. That's exactly why I got the COVID vaccine as well. I didn't need to have a little something. I know our state, Florida, doesn't give anything. You're lucky that you're even getting the vaccine.
 
Beth Demme (03:26):
Right, be grateful people. Be grateful.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:28):
That we have the vaccine.
 
Beth Demme (03:28):
Be grateful. It hasn't been outlawed yet.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:29):
But there are states actually have been doing incentives for everybody and they've actually seen great success with that. And again, I don't donate blood because of the shirt or the gift card. I do it because I can and I feel like it's something that is needed in the community and so that's why I donate blood.
 
Beth Demme (03:56):
It does. It is interesting to me and what we want to talk about today is: Why do we need incentives? When it comes to public health especially, why is there this idea that without an incentive, it won't happen? I'm just not sure where that comes from.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:15):
Well, it's interesting because I don't ... Basically we're going to have a conversation, but I don't know that we're ... I don't know that incentives are a bad thing. I don't ...
 
Beth Demme (04:26):
Right.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:26):
... think it is a bad thing. I do think sometimes you need that thing to push you over the edge. For example, I have Florida Blue insurance and they have this thing called like Better Health, I don't know what it's called, but it's on their website and you can get up to $500 off of your bill for doing their little incentive things. And I'm like, "That's free money," but it's good for them because I watch their videos and do their things and so the idea is that I would stay healthier because I'm more informed and then I get some money off. So I think those kind of incentives are great.
 
Beth Demme (05:06):
Well, I would say that kind of thing I would never ever do without an incentive. That is going to require an incentive because it's not ... Although they may think that ultimately it's for my best interest, I don't see it that way like I did with the COVID vaccine or like I do with the flu vaccine, right? I don't wait around for somebody to be like, "Okay, here's your gift card for getting your flu vaccine." I get my flu vaccine because I don't want to have the flu. I had it and it was terrible.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:32):
I know. I agree. And that's another thing on there is I have gotten my flu and COVID shot. And two of the incentives, you get $10 for getting each one and I was like, "Oh, I've already done it. Click." And I agree, those kinds of things I wouldn't have done unless there was an incentive, but it was helpful because I did learn some information about the healthcare system that I didn't necessarily know if I wasn't watching. And I'm a very rule follower, so I'm not like skipping the video, I am watching it and answering the questions because I'm like, "Hey, you give me 10 bucks, I'll do this," so those kind of centers.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:10):
And also when I worked for Apple, they paid for your gym membership and I know a lot of businesses do that. I think those kind of incentives are really good. And we used ... Apple, you could track your fitness and they'd have like if you'd match your goal at a certain time, they would like give you a free t-shirt and that was something they did for employees and that was fun and I used to do that.
 
Beth Demme (06:35):
And I've heard of car insurance companies, will let them track the way you drive-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:39):
Progressive, I've done that.
 
Beth Demme (06:40):
You can get a discount.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:40):
That was great.
 
Beth Demme (06:42):
I'm totally not doing that.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:43):
I love that. Well, I barely would drive my car, so that was not hard for me. You do really have to think about how you drive though when you have that thing in the car, but Progressive-
 
Beth Demme (06:53):
I could put it in a car I don't drive.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:54):
You could put it in the car that is not driven that much. Well, do the correct thing. I don't know. I don't drive my car that much, so it was just accurate, but Progressive is my favorite insurance. I've had multiple insurances and I have not switched from Progressive because they're awesome. That's a plug, not a sponsorship. David actually told me about Progressive who we had on the podcast a couple episodes or a couple months ago. He told me about Progressive. He's like, "It's great. It actually goes down over time." I was like, "No." Insurance going down? It's true and they gave a bonus back or they give money back during COVID because people weren't driving. I was like, "This is a company right here."
 
Beth Demme (07:34):
I have Geico. I got money back during COVID too. That was good.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:37):
I've never tried Geico. I've tried a couple others, but Progressive, I've been super happy with.
 
Beth Demme (07:43):
Well, I guess that's the question, is when it comes to the COVID vaccine or the flu vaccine or something like that, are we going out of our way or are we just, "If I'm going out of my way, then I think I need an incentive, but I'm just doing what is best for myself, I don't know that I need an incentive for that"?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:02):
It's tough for a vaccine or something. An incentive is not going to do anything for me. I'm going to do it because it needs to be done for my health and for the health of other people.
 
Beth Demme (08:13):
Or you won't do it if you don't think it's right for your health, right?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:15):
I would not, yeah. I wouldn't do it because I'm getting a $10 gift card, but I don't know. I'm trying to think of things that are just the right thing to do for society and ourselves, "Do I need an incentive to do them?" And I feel like the answer is no, but again I am in a very privileged spot where I am single. I work from home. I have a flexible schedule. So it's not a hardship for me to go and get a vaccine, but I could see where I think ... I actually I believe Publix, our grocery chain in Florida, they used to give a $10 gift card for getting a flu shot and I believe I heard that they're not doing that this year which was like big news, people wanted $10, but I could see where that could be really helpful for somebody that is a mom, is a dad that their schedule ...
 
Beth Demme (09:17):
So if you are a mom or something and you're busy.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:19):
If you're a mom and you have all your kids with you, it's a lot of work to get all that together and so I could see where that incentive would be like, "Okay, let me go do that, so we can also get some milk and eggs today for the kids. So I could see it, but for me those aren't things that pushed me over the edge. I'm just going to do them because it's the right thing to do.
 
Beth Demme (09:44):
Right. And I think with some of the incentives that I have read about with the COVID vaccine are employers saying you can have a day off of work because there is a chance that you could have a mild reaction. And so you might be thinking, "Well, I don't want to do that, then have to go back to work and not feel good." I will say that at the time I got my COVID vaccines, it's when I was serving at the hospital and we did a whole episode about that, but they said the opposite. So they said, "You may have your vaccine when you know you're going to have a day off. You can get your vaccine the day before that so that if you're sick, it happens on your day off."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:20):
That's a little, "Ohh."
 
Beth Demme (10:22):
And their rationale was, "We can't have a bunch of people from the hospital. We can't have medical staff not here." I wasn't medical staff, so it didn't apply to me in the same way, but it was like, "No, we can't just have everyone calling in sick because we are the medical providers." I was like, "Okay."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:41):
It's not so fun but yeah. No, I totally think, especially businesses that are mandating it, which that's a whole conversation what you feel about that, but I do think the bare minimum letting them have the day off after, giving some of those incentives, I think it feels very right to me. Speaking of vaccines, Tosh got her vaccines yesterday.
 
Beth Demme (11:05):
Way to go Tosh.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:07):
She got four vaccines. There was no incentive. There was a big price tag, but no incentive, "Here you go. Here's your dog's vaccines."
 
Beth Demme (11:18):
Did she have any adverse reactions?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:20):
She didn't. The vet said she might be more tired and I'm thinking, "So dead because what's more tired than a greyhound?" She was not more tired and she's like, "She might not eat for 24 hours." We get home. The whole food is gone. I'm like, "Okay, I guess she didn't hear about this." She ate Mac's too. I was like, "Okay, great." So she did well. There was no incentive beyond. My dog is going to get her vaccines.
 
Beth Demme (11:45):
You don't want to-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:46):
It's going to be taken care of.
 
Beth Demme (11:47):
Exactly. Do you think the fact that incentives get offered that that creates an expectation that there will be more incentives? For example, with the Publix thing, I don't know if they're doing the $10 gift card this year, but if they don't, I think people will be like, "What the heck, I've always gotten my $10 gift card."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:08):
I don't know because I feel like if it's your sole reason for getting something was like the bonus, then yes, that would really affect you, but I think it would be more just like a bummer like if, "Oh, they're not doing it this year. Oh, bummer. Well, I'll just go get it." Actually, it's very beneficial for businesses to do flu shot because when people are in the store, then they buy stuff. So it's actually very good for ... Publix is probably making way more money by giving out those $10 gift cards than they would because you have to go walk in there, wait, get your shot and that's why a lot of businesses want to be the ones giving out the shots.
 
Beth Demme (12:50):
Well, I feel like I missed out on something because I always thought that it costs $10 to get your flu shot and then they were just giving you this $10 gift card. And I was like, "Well, then I'm just breaking even. I'm not going to bother to get my flu shot here." And now I'm like, "Oh, maybe it was going to be free and I was going to get the $10 gift card and I really did miss out on the 10 bucks and I feel like I missed out on something."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:10):
That's the other thing is it's free. Obviously, I have insurance. So I'm assuming it's free because I have insurance, but I'm also feeling like it's free if you don't. I don't know. I have no idea how that works, but-
 
Beth Demme (13:27):
I feel like it changes from year to year. I've had the same insurance for a long time. I feel like there are some years that I've had to pay $10 and there are some years that has been free. This year, it was free.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:36):
I don't remember paying and I've had Florida Blue for a long time. And that right there is an incentive, the fact that you literally don't have to pay anything. Think about that. This is something that will help protect us from being painfully ill and infecting other people and we don't have to pay a thing. That to me and a lot of medications are ... I don't get a lot of medications, but the last time I got one was $2 or it was free. No, the last one was free. And I was like, "Okay, I'll just take this then. Okay, thanks." That's a pretty good incentive that it literally is costing me nothing or a couple dollars.
 
Beth Demme (14:17):
Well, it's costing you your health insurance premiums.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:20):
I agree, but it's very ... In my eyes, you have to have health insurance. That's a nonnegotiable. So the fact that the things that I need within my health insurance once I pay those is pretty minimal, it's pretty good. If I'm going to pay the health insurance, might as well do the things to protect my health.
 
Beth Demme (14:42):
So what are some other areas where we see this attitude of, "What's in it for me?" We are thick into the holiday season now and we're all spending time with family, and for some of us, that's a really great thing. And for some people, it's harder. And I bet that there are some folks who are like, "This family gathering, [crosstalk 00:15:03]."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:02):
That's interesting. Because holidays is one of those times where it's the happiest time of year, the most stressful time of year, the saddest time of year. It's like all of the things that this time of year is like all of the things. So do you say that? Do you like, "Oh, why am I doing this? What's in it for me? I don't enjoy these people"?
 
Beth Demme (15:26):
No, but there have been times where it was like, especially with much older relatives, where I was like, "Well, do we really have to do that?" And it was like, "I have to." And then I was able to shift my perspective and be like, "You know what? I can choose to go and honor them by sharing life with them and listening to their stories and being fully present with them." That made it a choice for me rather than, "I have to," like, "Oh, I can choose to honor them. Okay, that's what's in it for me is that I am going to be happy that I honor them."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:07):
Do you think it's an American thing that we always have to get something out of everything we do and it has to be enjoyable in some way or we have to justify it in some way, that can't just do it because it's the right thing to do?
 
Beth Demme (16:21):
Right, I think that I think it is. Maybe it's true in other Western cultures too, but I don't know, but it's very-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:28):
It feels American.
 
Beth Demme (16:29):
It feels American.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:30):
It feels American like, "I'm not going to do that."
 
Beth Demme (16:33):
"This is a free country and so I do not have to do that."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:37):
That sounds right. No, I agree though, especially growing up, we would go see family and like, "Why are we doing this? This isn't fun. I want to be home with my friends." And I didn't do a great job as a kid just how to justify it, but as I've gotten older, a lot of times I do it for my mom. She wants me to go see X, Y and Z and so I'll do that because I'll do it my mom. And that's how I justify it. And I do think it's important to justify it for myself at least because then I'm able to have the right attitude, right? If I can't see why I'm doing something or really justify it, then I don't have the right mindset.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:20):
So I would say whether it's American or not, I do think it is important for my mental stability to be able to like, "Okay, why am I doing this?" and so I'm not just angry the whole time.
 
Beth Demme (17:33):
Right and so you don't feel like you've been shoulded on.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:36):
Exactly.
 
Beth Demme (17:36):
"Oh, you should go see so and so." "Well, you know what? I'm going to figure out a reason why I want to go see so and so."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:44):
Wait, Beth, so I have a good one. Do you need incentive to donate to charity?
 
Beth Demme (17:52):
Some charities.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:54):
Do elaborate.
 
Beth Demme (17:55):
No, I'm kidding. I do think that charitable giving is really important and it's something that Stephen and I have prioritized our whole marriage really. I don't think giving to the church is donating to charity. That's a different thing for me.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:12):
Tithing?
 
Beth Demme (18:13):
Yeah. That's a spiritual discipline. That's between us and God. It's different, but if I take a load of stuff to an organization like Goodwill, I might not always choose Goodwill, but an organization like that, I want a receipt because I want to be able to claim it on my taxes.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:30):
She wants receipts, you all.
 
Beth Demme (18:31):
That's not why I donate, especially that kind of stuff. I'm like, "Oh, I'm just so grateful to be able to get rid of this stuff, but I've never sat down and thought, "Okay, we need another tax deduction. Let's find a charity to give to, but I do take the deductions we're entitled to. Does that make sense?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:56):
Yeah. Well, I guess what I was thinking about was there are some charities or there some things you could donate to where something as simple as at the grocery store, "Do you want to donate $5 and get your name on this balloon and put it on the wall?"
 
Beth Demme (19:11):
No, I shouldn't.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:11):
Because it's incentive for doing it because, "Oh, look, people will see my name and say I'm a good person," or if you donate this much money to a college, you can get a classroom with your big name on it. Is that an incentive?
 
Beth Demme (19:25):
I look forward to doing that. I totally want my name on something. If you're a development director and you're listening in this episode, call me.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:32):
What's a development director?
 
Beth Demme (19:33):
They're the people who call people to get money.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:36):
You want to donate? What school do you want to donate to?
 
Beth Demme (19:38):
I don't know. I don't have enough money for a big school. You don't want your name on the school. You don't want to replace Harvard-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:46):
Right.
 
Beth Demme (19:48):
It's no longer Doak Campbell Stadium. It's now the Demme Family Stadium. I understand I don't have this kind of resources-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:56):
That's a goal for you in life is to have your name on a building because you gave a buttload money?
 
Beth Demme (20:02):
Maybe.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:02):
How much is a buttload to you? How much money would you like to give to-
 
Beth Demme (20:09):
I would like to get it done with the smallest donation possible. That's how generous I am.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:14):
She wants to give the smallest amount of money, but the biggest font ever.
 
Beth Demme (20:18):
Who's got a closet available that they really need a new plaque for because I could be a part of that?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:24):
So Beth, you're being serious. You want to get your name on a classroom or a building of some sort one day to show how giving you are?
 
Beth Demme (20:35):
I don't know. I can't say that's on my list as an actual goal, but I would say that I think that it can be a neat way to establish a legacy and a neat way to feel like you will be remembered and that your existence will be remembered. I get that.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:53):
Why do you think that matters to have your ... Why do you think your name on a building would show that you mattered?
 
Beth Demme (20:59):
Well, I know that when I am on campuses that I see a place and it's named after somebody, I'm like, "Oh, I wonder what they did," or, "I wonder who they are." And it's like their name lives on if nothing else. I feel like maybe you don't put the same value on that.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:16):
I like hearing people's opinions. I, personally, have no desire to have my name on anything. For me, I feel like my legacy will live on by the work that I do and by the life I've led, but I'm not saying that the feeling you have wrong. I'm just saying that's never been a feeling I've had inside that I want. And when I walked by a building with someone's name on, I'm like, "Wow, they gave a buttload of money. Good for them." That's what I think. And so it's interesting we have different viewpoints. Usually when I see a name on something like a building, on a park bench, I have more of, "I wonder who they were," because it's a smaller, whatever and I feel like it's a more meaningful ... It's more of a gesture of something sweet than a giant building. I tend to when I see a name like that, I tend to think, "Oh, they had a buttload of money."
 
Beth Demme (22:16):
Yeah, but I think most of our buildings are not named after people who have donated money. Obviously, I don't have any actual statistics on this, but for example, my kids go to Lawton Chiles High School. He didn't donate a cent for that public school to be built, right? Or any of the other public schools that you think about.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:38):
And I don't think that because I actually went to Chiles and I remember why they named it and that was a big deal to name it after him because he hadn't been dead long enough which is weird, but there's a certain amount of time you have to be dead before that happens. That is different. I guess I'm thinking of a classroom or a big ... I don't know. There's places where it's like, "That's something that someone paid for." Definitely, I don't look at Chiles and be like, "Oh, how much money he gave?" I know he was a governor of Florida. He was a great governor that's why it was named after him. So I get where you're coming from, where you're like, "Oh, that's interesting. I want to look up that person and see about their life." I can see where you're coming from and I'm not saying that that's a silly goal in life or anything like that. If I went to the Demme Auditorium, I'd be excited.
 
Beth Demme (23:38):
Me too. I know it's lovely inside.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:42):
I was trying to think, "What kind of building would it be?" I don't know. "Oh, the law school, Demme Law. Demme law. Yeah."
 
Beth Demme (23:50):
No, maybe pastoral or something,
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:53):
Demme Church.
 
Beth Demme (23:53):
You know what? I could probably get a classroom at my Seminary. They're low on resources.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:00):
Oh, my gosh. Hopefully, they don't listen to this. "I came to you because you were the lowest bidder."
 
Beth Demme (24:09):
Well, I don't think they probably would mind. There have also been times when my husband and I have made charitable donations because, "Oh, this charity is hosting a party," and we want to go to the party.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:21):
You know how many spam and robo calls we all get and it's like, "Your car insurance is about to expire, da, da, da, da, da"? The classics, "
 
Beth Demme (24:31):
Our "your car warranty ...."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:32):
Car warranty, yeah. It's like the classic stuff and I always wonder, "How does this work? Why are you wasting your time?" It's like, "It's got to work on somebody and on people for it too." Because there is a part where you want to be ... I think there's a part of all of us that we want to do the right thing, we want to be helpful and all these things and I think that's what they're preying on, is that part of us. That's never works for me. I used to get calls from my college every year, around the same time, get called from my college who he wanted me to give money and I finally blocked the number because I was tired of accidentally answering it every year.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:10):
And for me, the sales pressure technique never worked like, "You have to donate now." "Can you email me some information so I can read about this?" "No." "I need it now." "No." I want to research. If I'm going to give my money to something, I want to know that it's actually going to the charity and there's actually websites you can look up to see how much percentage goes to actually funding the charity, how much is in administration, things like that. So if I'm going to donate, I want to do it for the right reasons. And sometimes I donate just to friends that are going through hard times and things. It's not tax deductible. It's not anything. It's just like, "I can and I want to help."
 
Beth Demme (25:50):
Yeah, I have had to make those calls.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:53):
The college calls?
 
Beth Demme (25:54):
When I was in law school, I had to call. It was a condition of a scholarship that I got. I had to agree to make the phone calls and it was not fun. And then in seminary, so this was more recently, they said that anyone who received any kind of scholarship had to make not calls to ask for money but calls to people who had donated to say, "Hi, I'm a student and I just wanted to tell you about my experience." And I was like, "First of all, I don't love talking on the phone. Second of all, cold calling people who are not expecting you to call is so uncomfortable. "
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:31):
And waiting for you to be, "And we need some money."
 
Beth Demme (26:36):
Well, we didn't have to do the ask at least in seminary, but in law school we did. We had to actually ask, "Can you ..." So once a year, some kid from the law school calls and I'm like, "Hey, I know how fun it is not to have to make these calls, but I'm still not going to donate. Thanks anyway."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:53):
Well, and I knew the same thing. At my college, I knew that these were kids getting scholarships, they had to do it and so I was nice, but I'm like, "I don't want to continue having this conversation." And as you said which I'm shocked, I didn't realize you don't like talking on the phone, I obviously despise talking on the phone as the introvert that I am. So if you don't like talking on phone, I don't know who does, right? You like talking on the phone, call in, please call in to our voicemail number.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:17):
We'll give it at the end of the show and tell us that you like talking on the phone because apparently both of us don't like to be on the phone. And I want to know my mom. She is great in talking in the phone. I want to know who you are and we want to hear you talk, and obviously, you would love to call because you'd like to talk. So how about when you go to a store and they say, "If you buy $50," I saw this at Target recently, "If you buy $50 worth of toys, you get a $10 gift card."
 
Beth Demme (27:45):
I am such a sucker for that.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:47):
Are you?
 
Beth Demme (27:47):
It worked on me almost every time. When my kids were little there was this clothing store called Gymboree and they would do a whole thing called Gym Bucks. And so you would spend ... I can't remember. Let's say you spent $100 and you would get $50 in Gym Bucks, but then to spend that $50 in Gym Bucks you have to spend another $100.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (28:05):
What?
 
Beth Demme (28:07):
It's like such a scam, but me and all of my mommy friends, we were so into our Gym Bucks. We were so about it! Or like Kohl's does Kohl's cash, that's a big thing, but I actually have a Target story that happened recently that was a little bit devastating to me. So I have the Target app. I shop at Target a lot. It's my go-to store. So in the Target app, there was this thing called Target Circle. They had this promotion where if you had three visits within a certain period of time where you spent $85 or more, you would get $20 back. Now normally, I would never be close to hitting it in that period of time, but we had some circumstances where we were buying stuff for some other folks. And so it just worked out that I had two of my visits in and I needed one more visit to get this incentive.
 
Beth Demme (29:00):
And I was like, "Listen, I've already got two of them." I was like, "Listen, I need some new laundry baskets. I need paper towels and I need toilet paper. I can hit that at $85." So Hannah, my daughter said, "Hey, mom, I need to run to Target and get a three-ring binder." And I was like, "Great when you go, also get these things, but make sure you put in my phone number when you check out, so that I will get my bonus."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:24):
What happened?
 
Beth Demme (29:25):
She forgot to put in my phone number.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:27):
What?
 
Beth Demme (29:28):
And she got all the things I asked for, so it was more than $85 and I did not get my $20 bonus.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:34):
How did she not put in the phone number? Hannah?
 
Beth Demme (29:38):
She just forgot.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:41):
That's not good enough. That's not good enough. Tell her she owes you $20. Oh, my gosh.
 
Beth Demme (29:45):
I was like, "I'm being so ridiculous."
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:47):
You bought her a three-ring binders. It's probably $20. Those things go for 30 on-
 
Beth Demme (29:53):
And honestly, we had three-binders at home. She didn't really even need a brand new one. So I didn't get my $20 Target incentive, even though I really deserved it. I also deserved it because I had already tried to put in a drive-up order and it would have met the $85 threshold, except that they were out of some of the things that I wanted, so then they didn't give me any credit for trying.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (30:13):
Wow, Beth. I'm glad you're sharing this because I think this is going to be therapeutic for you. First of all, I'm so sorry that that happened to you.
 
Beth Demme (30:26):
Thank you. Thank you. That's a hard time.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (30:27):
Second of all, a win for Target. Man, they got a lot of your money and they didn't give you anything. So great. Good job, Target. This is exactly why they do incentive like this because they know, A, you're going to try and fail or, B, you're going to get the gift card and then it's going to fall somewhere. You're going to forget about it. They know. They see you come in, folks.
 
Beth Demme (30:48):
I don't lose gift cards and I will say-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (30:51):
Well, but I think a majority. I do think that that's a big reason why they do these things is they think people will forget to use them.
 
Beth Demme (30:58):
Well, the Target gift cards, you can put in your app, just you can a Starbucks gift card, so I'd never lose them-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:03):
And that's what I do with Starbucks cards too. I guess that's the only ... I don't do the Target Circle thing, but I do have the Starbucks app. And sometimes they'll have like, "Get like three teas during this time and then you can get more stars." I'll do that. And there was, I do remember one time, where it was like, "Get three handcrafted beverages five days in a row," or something. And that was before COVID and that's when I was going once a day and I was like, "Done. Doing it."
 
Beth Demme (31:35):
Right.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:35):
And on the fifth day, I did it. And I was like, "I'm so proud. I'm so proud." And I never got the whatever. And I was like, "Who do I complain to?" right? But then I was like, "This is why I shouldn't do these things because I shouldn't get worked up about this." So I don't really pay attention. Well, I don't go really to Starbucks anymore which is just sad.
 
Beth Demme (31:52):
Because of COVID.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:53):
And I have a more healthy relationship with Starbucks now, maybe once a week of that.
 
Beth Demme (32:04):
It was really like disappointing to think, "Oh, I'm going to get this incentive," and then it turns out that I didn't.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (32:10):
So I have one last thought here. So Beth, what's in it for you being the cohost on this podcast?
 
Beth Demme (32:19):
The main thing that's in it for me is that I get to spend time with you. That's my main-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (32:24):
Oh, the feels.
 
Beth Demme (32:25):
That's my main motivation. And then the second thing that's in it for me is that I like the conversations we have and I like what we think through together. Why? What's in it for you?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (32:39):
So this is a podcast, so people can't see your face, but the way you ask that was just so like ... It was very heavy with a look and an accusatory. That was well done.
 
Beth Demme (32:51):
Thank you. My face says a lot.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (32:52):
It does say a lot. What's in it for me is when I wrote my book, I wanted to, I knew I was putting out everything. I was like an open book. Literally an open book. And I knew if I just wrote it and was done, then I wouldn't be able to continue being open. It's something that takes practice, is to continue to be open and to continue to be vulnerable and to continue to talk about hard things. I wanted to be able to do that and I wanted to be able to continue to share my story and my journey and things I've learned along the way, but I couldn't do that by just writing the book and being done.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (33:35):
So for me, the podcast helps me continue to be able to have this conversation of honest conversations and talking about hard things or talking about things that I wouldn't typically talk about and talking to people that I wouldn't be able to talk about in general because it would be weird if I was like, "Hey, I loved your book. Can we chat on the phone?" ''I don't really have that much time." So there's just so many opportunities that come with having the podcast and having time dedicated and having structure behind it. So what's in it for me is I get to continue to explore, sharing my story, continue to explore learning about other people's story and sharing that with other people.
 
Beth Demme (34:25):
We have a ton of fun making this podcast and we love knowing that you have fun listening. Some of you have asked how you can support us in this work. Well actually, there is something you can do. We're now on buymeacoffee.com. You can go there and become a monthly supporter or just buy us a one-time cup of coffee or tea for Steph. To show our thanks for your support, we put PDFs of our questions for reflection as well as pictures, outtakes, polls and more. Your support helps cover production costs like professional transcripts that we have made for every episode. By the way, those are always available on our website with a link in each of the description of the episodes.
 
Beth Demme (35:01):
One of the great things about buying me a coffee is that you actually get an email when we post new content. You can go straight there and you don't have to deal with ads or being bombarded with other content. You see exactly the content you're looking for without a bunch of distractions.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (35:15):
We post once or twice for each episode and we're excited to get your feedback as members of our Buy Me A Coffee page. There's a support link in the description where you can find out more and to sign up. So I really do want to know if you are someone that likes to talk on the phone, we want to hear from you. We have a phone number that you can call in and you can leave us a voicemail. Sorry, you won't be able to talk to us on the phone, because like we have said in the episode, we don't talk on the phone, but we'd love to hear your voice over voicemail and just tell us why you like to talk on the phone because I am genuinely curious. But if you don't like to talk on the phone, you can also text that number and we can text for that number. So Beth will tell you what the number is.
 
Beth Demme (35:57):
That's 850-270-3308.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:01):
And that is actually a Google Voice number, so it doesn't actually go to our phones if you're curious. If you want to know Beth's number, she'll tell you that right now.
 
Beth Demme (36:11):
I'm pretty generous of my cellphone number actually. Maybe more generous than I should be.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:16):
That you want to be or you should be? That's probably a should.
 
Beth Demme (36:19):
That's probably a should.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:19):
Probably should.
 
Beth Demme (36:20):
Probably should.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:24):
So I wanted to talk about an activity that I've been getting into lately because this is my new favorite thing. Recently like three weeks ago, I got ... For the last two years, I've been getting into kayaking and I finally decided I was going to get my own kayak and I bought my own kayak and I bought a folding kayak. So I finally splurged on this. I wasn't sure. I saw a lot of mixed reviews, but it's called Oru Kayak and it folds up into a box. It actually is a box. It's not in a box, it becomes a box and then it becomes a kayak. And I absolutely love it. They make different models. I have the inlet model and it is an amazing kayak. I've been kayaking nine times since I got it and I am just loving it.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (37:07):
And my mom is loving kayaking now. And Emily, who we had on the podcast, she is loving kayaking now. And I'm just like finding all these new kayaking friends and I'm planning out ... There's different springs in Florida that have really pretty places to kayak and I'm making notes and it's my whole new thing and I love it.
 
Beth Demme (37:26):
And you made some videos about the kayak, right? So we could put links to those in the show notes?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (37:30):
Yes. So just for fun. I was like, "Oh, let me film this process." So I filmed a first look at the Oru Kayak and then I've been ... I was just wanting to try out using different GoPro mounts on the kayak and then I was like looking at footage like, "This is pretty good." I can make a video." So that's how I started making videos of the other trips. So are you into any new hobbies lately?
 
Beth Demme (37:53):
No, but I don't know if I told you, but we bought another car.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (37:58):
What? Not, what?
 
Beth Demme (38:01):
We bought another car.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:02):
You have more space.
 
Beth Demme (38:03):
We have no more space.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:04):
You had no more space before.
 
Beth Demme (38:05):
We had no more space before.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:07):
What car did you get?
 
Beth Demme (38:08):
It's a 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:12):
Let me see a picture. That was a lot of words. It's a Jeep.
 
Beth Demme (38:15):
But it's an SUV.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:18):
So this was something Stephen wanted?
 
Beth Demme (38:19):
Yes.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:20):
Well, for what purpose? It's cute. It looks '90s.
 
Beth Demme (38:24):
It's a really fun car. It was on my list of cars that I like to have one day which is not a list that every person has. I appreciate that, but if you're married to my husband, you would have that list because cars are really important to him. It came up on Facebook Marketplace and it was a really good deal and so-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:45):
Of course, it was because no one has space for another car except you guys apparently.
 
Beth Demme (38:48):
Yes.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:48):
So you got another car. This is something you wanted?
 
Beth Demme (38:52):
Well, no. He has been very clear, this is his car. I have my very reliable daily driver and I have my really fun pickup truck. Everything else is on him. Anyway, so that was my-
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (39:08):
That's your new hobby.
 
Beth Demme (39:09):
We have a new vehicle, another new vehicle in the family.
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (39:20):
At the end of each episode, we end with questions for reflection. These are questions based on today's show that Beth will read and leave a little pause between, read the answer to yourself or you can get a PDF on our Buy Me A Coffee page.
 
Beth Demme (39:30):
Number one, why don't you listen to this podcast? What's in it for you? Number two, do small incentives motivate you to take action like Beth's Target story? Number three, how do you motivate yourself to do something hard or uncomfortable like spending time with extended family? And number four, how often do you do something even if there's nothing in it for you?
 
Stephanie Kostopoulos (39:56):
This has been The Discovering Our Scars Podcast. Thank you for joining us.