Questions for Reflection
In each episode, we offer you a few prompts to think about how that day's conversation applies to you. Our supporters over at Buy Me a Coffee now have exclusive access to the PDF versions of all our Questions for Reflection. Join us today!
Beth Demme (00:03):
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars Podcast.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:06):
Where we share personal experiences so we can learn from each other.
Beth Demme (00:08):
Our mission is to talk about things you might relate to, but that you don't hear being discussed in other places.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:14):
Our hope is that you're encouraged to have honest conversations with people in your own life. I'm Steph.
Beth Demme (00:18):
And I'm Beth. On today's show, we're going to have an honest conversation titled "Community? Squad? Your People."
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:25):
Then we'll share a slice of life and the show will close with questions for reflection, where we'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in your own life. Okay Beth, what are we talking about today?
Beth Demme (00:35):
We're talking about how important it is to have a community, or a squad, or just a group of people who are your people. And I wanted to talk about this because, throughout this pandemic, I have gotten really comfortable not hanging out with friends. You and I have been able to be intentional about making time together, which has been great. But there are a lot of friends who I just, oh, I see them on Facebook, or we text or whatever, but I haven't actually been in person with them.
Beth Demme (01:06):
And recently I went out to dinner with a group of, I guess there were six of us altogether, it was a group of five women, and I was so happy at the end of that, having been with my friends and remembering that people like me, and remembering that I could just be myself and just the energy that came from us being together. We did meet at a restaurant, we sat outside, we're all vaccinated, we did all the right COVID things. But I don't know, I just was so energized by my time with them that it made me remember that I do have a community, or a squad, or my people or whatever it's called, and that I'm really grateful for that.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:45):
Yeah, because you brought this up as a topic for today, and I had been feeling the same way. I feel like we probably both kind of have started to get out of our little hole a little bit.
Beth Demme (01:59):
We've been in hibernation.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:00):
Yeah. And I went to Colorado in August. I went with a friend, and we stayed with a friend, and that was the first time I had really... I was big branching out. And it just felt so nice to be with people and see them not on a computer screen. Although I'm all for computer screen, I think that's great that technology was able to be there for us.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:22):
But yeah, I've been feeling the same way, and I've been able to see a couple friends recently, very recently. And just to see them in person, and actually Lori was one of our guests we had early on, and I just had breakfast with her at...
Beth Demme (02:40):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:41):
Yeah, outside, but it was awesome. So I was like, "Ah, Lori."
Beth Demme (02:44):
Plus, meeting for breakfast or brunch is the best thing. I love that.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:47):
It's the best thing, I know. It was the best.
Beth Demme (02:48):
And I think you shared in our last episode that you had actually recently gone hiking with a friend.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:52):
Yes. And we're going hiking again in a week or two. Yeah, so that was just really cool to be able to meet up. This was a friend from college. Yeah.
Beth Demme (03:03):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:03):
We go back to college.
Beth Demme (03:05):
But all through the pandemic, you have been meeting by Zoom with a group you call your Ten Ladies, right?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:12):
Yes, my Ladies.
Beth Demme (03:12):
Or just your Ladies.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:12):
Yeah, my Ladies, well... 10 Ladies, yeah. So in high school, there was 10 of us that were like a core group of friends, we called ourselves the 10 Ladies. And now I just call them the Ladies because it's not necessarily all 10 of them that... we're not all always together, but now it's just my Ladies.
Beth Demme (03:28):
Just, The Ladies.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:29):
I just think that's such a funny word, lady.
Beth Demme (03:31):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:33):
I don't know, it's just perfect. We weren't the girls, or the women, we're the Ladies. And we're so... if you were to think of a stereotype of a lady, none of us are like that. None of us are "ladies". But we're Ladies.
Beth Demme (03:46):
Well one of you is the state metrologist.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:48):
Beth Demme (03:49):
Yeah, who we had on as a guest.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:50):
Yeah. She came over the other day, and we hung out and chatted, so that was really cool to see her. Yeah, we had Megan on. We'll put a link to that episode.
Beth Demme (03:59):
Yes, for sure. But what I was kind of getting at is, it is different seeing our friends in person than seeing them on Zoom or on social media especially. There's just something to be gained about being able to be in the same physical space as each other.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:13):
Well, and one thing though, is I have a friend that lives in another state, and I don't typically... before the pandemic, wouldn't keep in touch with her that much in any kind of video way, but we started Zooming during the pandemic and we still Zoom. We still do a weekly Zoom together, me and her. So that's cool to be able to... I still feel like I'm connected more to her than I ever was before, even though it's still over a video. So that's cool that the pandemic kind of created that need to spend more time together in however we could, and we still do that.
Beth Demme (04:48):
Yeah and the pandemic made it kind of normal to do things by Zoom, and so it was like yeah, this would be an okay thing to do with a friend, it's not just a business application or whatever. It's like, yeah, we could do this.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:59):
Well it put Zoom on the map.
Beth Demme (05:01):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:01):
I knew of Zoom before, but I hadn't been using it. I had been looking into it for when we were going to do remote guests, which is hilarious because we just had to jump right into that. But we had been looking into doing remote guests and Zoom was one of those options, and I was looking into it and now we're full steam ahead with Zoom.
Beth Demme (05:18):
Right. Zoom is like...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:21):
I'm glad it was around before the pandemic, they got their kinks worked out and it's a great program. Not sponsored, but we like them.
Beth Demme (05:29):
I remember when the pandemic first started, somebody posted... I read on Facebook, she posted, "I would just invite all of us just to pray for the president of Zoom." And it was like as soon as shutdown happened mid-March, she posted that and I thought, "Huh. I wonder if that's going to be a thing." Wow, was she ever right. So, so wise to think about the people who were leading a company like that and how necessary it was going to become, for sure.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:55):
Beth Demme (05:57):
So you've got your ladies, but what's the right word? Like friends, posse, crew, framily. How do we... I don't know.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:06):
Beth Demme (06:06):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:07):
Did you make that up?
Beth Demme (06:08):
Like friends who are family. It's like the opposite of a frenemy.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:13):
Yes. No I don't know that I have frenemies. I don't think so.
Beth Demme (06:16):
I hope I don't have frenemies.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:18):
We're working on it right now. We're working on it. I don't think it matters, I think you decide what your group is called. I mean, I don't even know how the 10 Ladies came about, that was in high school when we came up with that name, and I don't know.
Beth Demme (06:33):
Well it's like, I've met with the same women for book club... Hey you all, I hope you're listening, I know many of you do... but we've been meeting for, I don't know, 15 years?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:42):
Oh my gosh, you must have a great name. Okay, tell us what the name of your book club ladies is.
Beth Demme (06:46):
No! A couple years in, I think someone even said, "What should we call ourselves?" And we were all like, "Book Club?" So that's what we call ourselves. Book Club. If you look at my calendar, it's like, "book club." That's it. That's what we call ourselves.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:58):
Come on. No, it's been 15 years.
Beth Demme (07:02):
Yeah, it's been 15 years, and the numbers vary but there's a core group of, I would say, probably 8 to 10.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:08):
And none of you...
Beth Demme (07:09):
I guess we'll be the 10 Ladies. Is that trademarked?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:11):
Are you all lawyers and non-creative people? What's the deal here?
Beth Demme (07:15):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:17):
Oh, I went there.
Beth Demme (07:18):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:19):
No, you're very creative, actually.
Beth Demme (07:22):
Let's see... There are a lot of lawyers.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:25):
So you're very matter-of-fact. Book Club. This is Book Club, it's descriptive and that's what we're doing.
Beth Demme (07:31):
There are a lot of lawyers. I guess I never stopped to count how many are lawyers.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:35):
You guys got to work on your name, then, because...
Beth Demme (07:37):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:38):
The Lawyer Book Club.
Beth Demme (07:39):
No, no, no, because we're not all lawyers.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:42):
Who started the group?
Beth Demme (07:44):
Christi, who we had on for our divorce episode.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:46):
Christi's Book Club. That's fun!
Beth Demme (07:49):
Yeah, I don't think she would want to have a stake in the ownership.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:54):
But, isn't her last name Gray?
Beth Demme (07:55):
It is now, it wasn't when we started the book club. Or when she started the book club.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:00):
The Gray Book Club.
Beth Demme (08:02):
Right, but now I work at Gray Memorial United Methodist, that could be confusing to me.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:07):
Okay, well I think Gray is a great... Because it's Gray with an A or an E?
Beth Demme (08:11):
Both are with an A. I mean her name and my church are an A.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:13):
Okay, well, that's the traditional American way of doing it. But I think Gray is always a great name in something because I have greyhounds, by the way, so I think it's a great name.
Beth Demme (08:23):
You have greyhounds? When did that happen?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:25):
Look to your left, they're on your foot I'm pretty sure.
Beth Demme (08:31):
They're very close and they're both asleep.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:33):
Could Mac be any closer?
Beth Demme (08:35):
No. She couldn't.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:36):
Don't move your chair. Literally, her head is right by your chair.
Beth Demme (08:40):
I'm going to take a picture and put this on our BMAC. She's very close to my foot.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:44):
Yep. Yep. Don't move your foot.
Beth Demme (08:47):
I will not move.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:49):
So, you have your book club. Do you have other groups... Do you have groupings of posse?
Beth Demme (08:56):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (08:57):
I don't like posse as a name. How about friends, I guess.
Beth Demme (09:01):
Right. I have groups of friends mostly based on how we met. So I have friends who I met through... Mothers of Preschoolers, when my kids were little, or the next thing after that was called Moms Next, and so we kind of met because we were moms. So, because we were in a similar phase of life. And that's actually who I had dinner with the other night, were some of the MOPS ladies, so that was really fun. And then I have friends from law school, and that kind of bleeds over into some lawyer friends. And then I have church friends. So I do kind of have groups of friends. And now that I think about it, I think I've kind of always been that way. Even when I think about high school, I had my band friends, I had my, whatever, my study group friends. Kind of different groups of friends.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:56):
And do you have special names for any of these groups?
Beth Demme (10:00):
I do not.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:01):
Okay. So that's maybe not a universal thing, to have fun names for your pods.
Beth Demme (10:06):
Yeah, maybe not.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:08):
I mean, to be fair, I have my Ladies, but I also have DIY friends. I don't have a fun name for them, it was just DIY friends. I have college friends that... that's their name, college.
Beth Demme (10:20):
Right. Because that's your common interest, your shared interest, or what brought you together. Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:25):
Yeah. So I would say I have different groupings of friends as well. But that is something that I don't think that I had noticed previously in time, but that the pandemic has really brought to light was the need to make time. I do know, after high school, I do remember realizing that you don't just see your friends every day and you actually have to make time for that.
Beth Demme (10:50):
Yeah, it changes. It changes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:51):
So I remember when that kind of shocker was like, "Oh, I have to actually plan this now." But now this is really just kind of showing me the importance of people and being with people in whatever way you can, so. So yeah, I've been making time for friends and it's refreshing to just see people and be able to see them in a safe way.
Beth Demme (11:19):
Now are most of your friends the same gender as you?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (11:24):
Yeah. As I'm thinking about the little pods of friendships, I would think yeah, they're mostly female. I mean, my friends... there are some males definitely in there, but... And then my Apple friends, actually, I used to work for Apple, and that was just... if I wanted friends they had to be guys because the split when I first started Apple was very much male-oriented. It did change through my time there, into a better split of genders, but most of my friends from Apple I would say are male. So, definitely have male friends. But I would say overall female friends. How about you?
Beth Demme (12:10):
Yeah, I think most of mine are women. Maybe because of how we met. I met because I was doing mommy groups or I met because I was doing a women lawyers group. Maybe that's why. But also if I want to hang out with a guy, I'm going to hang out with my husband. He's my favorite guy.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:30):
Well, you've been together a long time.
Beth Demme (12:32):
No listen, I've been married your whole life.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:34):
I know. I was going to say. And you guys were together in high school, so you can't even really think back too far.
Beth Demme (12:41):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:42):
Okay, nevermind, I'm not going to ask you then. I agree, there is something different... Well I remember when I worked for Apple and pretty much all my friends were guys at that point. And also I worked at Disney and I had a lot of guy friends there. And I remember there was a time where I was looking around and I was like, "All the people I hang out with are guys all the time." Which was fine, but there is something different when you're with your own gender that I've noticed. Women get women things just... quick. And it's just part of their culture and their life and they just know. I think we have, as women, we have intuition that men don't have and we have this ability to maybe listen a little bit better and not always give our two cents. That's something that I have noticed when I talk to my guy friends, is they're quick to give me the answers to my problems, and no. I got this. I'm just venting. So there is a difference when I talk to different genders, so. I think it's good to have a balance, but I totally understand... I mean obviously you're coming from a place of being married and I'm coming from a place of not, so I can totally see where your number one guy friend would be your husband.
Beth Demme (13:53):
Right, well. And we've figured those things out. He knows he doesn't have to fix every problem. We've grown together in that, so it's easy to talk to him, it's easy to just hang out with him.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:07):
Is that why he fixes cars? Because you won't let him fix your personal issues? So he's like, "Well then I'm going to go fix your car."
Beth Demme (14:13):
Boy do I have a car for him to fix right now.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:17):
He loves it.
Beth Demme (14:19):
He's been doing a lot of stuff on the house lately, so he hasn't worked on the cars in probably, I don't know, almost a month because he's been really busy with house stuff. But now he's done with the house stuff, so time to get back to the car.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:31):
Is it in the shop? Because I know you said you had a...
Beth Demme (14:33):
It's out of the shop.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:35):
Did they work on the engine in the shop?
Beth Demme (14:37):
They did not, which is the problem. Anyway, it kind of just fell apart.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:42):
So is he going to get the engine hoist thing?
Beth Demme (14:45):
He thinks he doesn't have to actually remove the engine to do the work that we want done. Because basically what we want done is, if any of this stays in, we're talking about a 1987 Chevrolet stepside pickup truck that I wanted and that I got over the summer but it has been set up to be a hot rod vehicle, and I don't want to hot rod. So I would like to step on the gas and have it go. And what it does right now is you step on the gas and then it waits, and then it goes "Vroom!" And I don't want that.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:18):
I'm shocked that's not what you got that car for, Beth.
Beth Demme (15:21):
So I'd definitely say my husband is one of my persons. I think of him as...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:29):
But he's family. Does that count?
Beth Demme (15:30):
Right, that's where I was going with it. But when I think of my people, I sort of put my family in a different category than that.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:40):
Yeah, I think they could be in their own category of your people. Because I do believe in, like, you don't choose your biological family but you can choose people that you want to look at as family. We had Daniel on the podcast and I call him my bro because he's very supportive and he's very much like a brother to me. But I would also consider him in my pods. I'm going to call mine my pods. That's what I've decided. Which is great, I just realized, podcast and pod.
Beth Demme (16:14):
Is that because you have a podcast?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:16):
No, I don't know why. But there was a time, a season of life where pod was what people were calling groups of people.
Beth Demme (16:23):
Especially when the pandemic was...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:25):
No, I feel like a long time ago.
Beth Demme (16:27):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:27):
Like early 2010, 11. I don't know. I feel like pod was the word. I like pod, so I would say, "He's in one of my pods." And then I have greyhound friends, and they're in a pod. I'm going to take some time to actually list out all of my friends and put them in different pods, and name those pods. The Lady pod...
Beth Demme (16:49):
And what you're going to do is you're going to make a spreadsheet about it. And then you can share the spreadsheet with the people in those groups and then they can edit it.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:57):
Yes! And I can give them an order of who is my favorite in each of the pods. No, I've done that before.
Beth Demme (17:06):
You've done that before?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:08):
I've given people a rating. I realize this is wrong to say out loud.
Beth Demme (17:14):
And also it was wrong to do, did you realize that too?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:16):
No, no, I didn't rate them my favorite. Although if you're my favorite, you already know. They know.
Beth Demme (17:23):
Yeah I do know.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:26):
You're my favorite podcast co-host ever. You are number one. No, I have trust issues and so I will rate the person based on how much I trust somebody. And I have made the mistake of saying that to them, especially if the number was low, which was a mistake. So I'm going to try to be really careful about how much I tell people the percentage that I trust them.
Beth Demme (17:49):
I'm just guessing, that did not help build trust.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:54):
It's a whole long story but no, I don't think so. Do you want to know how much I trust you?
Beth Demme (18:00):
I don't know, do I?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:01):
I'm not going to tell you, because I just told you that story that it didn't work out well. It's not 100%, I'll tell you that.
Beth Demme (18:07):
Is there anyone you trust 100%?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:09):
No. My mom is 95. That's the line.
Beth Demme (18:13):
Right. So here's the thing about that, is you don't need to tell me, I totally don't want to know, but also I would say that the number has more to do with you than with me so it's kind of irrelevant to me.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:24):
Well there, you see? Exactly. Why did they get upset? That was my whole point, though, actually, of sharing it, was sharing my trust level and just when I newly met somebody and also, specifically on their gender, how that number is low until I've had concrete examples that will bring that number up. That was my point of sharing it, because I agree, it is more about me.
Beth Demme (18:51):
Yeah. Yeah. Well that's the whole thing, some people bestow trust right away, some people need trust to be earned, it's a whole personality thing.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:01):
Exactly. You're a 90. That's pretty high.
Beth Demme (19:05):
Yeah, I said it didn't matter but I'm pretty glad it's that. Isn't that funny?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:13):
She's going to try to get to 100, I know it, and she has to know she's a 100. But no one is 100, so sorry.
Beth Demme (19:21):
You know what? 90 is an A.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:22):
I know, I know! I knew you were thinking that too. I knew you were thinking that. Well I'll let you know if it ever moves to an 89. It'll drive you crazy.
Beth Demme (19:32):
It will drive me crazy.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:33):
I wouldn't do that.
Beth Demme (19:34):
Just keep that info to yourself. Although if I did something that caused trust to erode, I would want to know so that I wouldn't do it again.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:43):
I would say it in a helpful way, probably, instead of just like, "89." I'm going to wear a shirt one time that just says 89%, you'll walk in and be like, "No!"
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:59):
So something that I think both of us have lived through, I've lived through more in my young adulthood, you probably in... I don't know, I'm thinking social media. It really kind of took off or started when I was in college. That's where Facebook started, I remember getting an invite. But I'm wondering, do you think that the social media just in general, does that help our connections with people or hurt our connections with people? Like with our pods. What do you think?
Beth Demme (20:31):
I tend to think that social media helps because it makes it easy to know kind of what's going on with folks. But I could also see how it would not be helpful because people play the comparison game, or people are not always honest on social media which can really affect trust issues. But also because it's easy to see things on social media, I don't always reach out the way that I would have otherwise. So I might post on Facebook, "Happy birthday" to somebody, whereas without Facebook I might text them to say happy birthday. So it's a different kind of connection. But overall I feel like it has helped me to build and maintain connections with my friends.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:25):
Well it's interesting because you have had a world without... In your twenties, you didn't have social media. So I never really had... I connected with people because of high school, and then right out of high school when you would start to lose connections with some of those earlier friendships, I had social media. And so that's how I connected with people. So you remember a time when you didn't have that, and then you did have that, so you see it as really helpful.
Beth Demme (21:58):
Yeah. I mean, I remember a time where if somebody moved, you had to write them a letter. Because nobody was going to pay the long distance bill. You would have to write letters to each other. That makes me sound ancient, but it wasn't that long ago.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:12):
Well, I would agree, I think social media helps. There's our responsibility with social media too. I think there's a lot of harm with social media, but we have to choose how we interact with it and what we put out there. I can remember when Facebook started and it was a fun place that you connect with your friends but it was a whole different world. We didn't have devices in our hands. We interacted in a different way. I would say early on I connected way more with my friends through social media. I would say way less now. Most of my friends are not super active on social media, I'm not super active on social media. I think it's helpful to be able to kind of check in with people, and I will message them through Facebook Messenger because that's the only contact I have for them. So I've definitely seen it as helpful in those senses. But People that I've connected with online and then find them in person, there's a whole different thing about being with a person in person, and connecting with them, and being one on one, and they're sharing a message with just you and not just anyone that reads their Facebook or whatever. So I definitely think, at least for me, Facebook and Instagram and all those are helpful but there's nothing like connecting with a person in person or one-on-one.
Beth Demme (23:39):
I don't know if this has happened to you because I know you don't post a ton on Facebook, but sometimes I'll run into somebody in the grocery store or something and they'll refer to what I posted and then I have to think for a second, "Oh yeah, I did post that," like, "Oh yeah, they would know that I changed jobs or whatever it would be. So I didn't have to catch them up in the grocery store because they already knew what was going on.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:02):
I know, which is a little strange. Also, I don't post a lot online but I posted a video about my dogs and their crate journey, and I then posted a comment on somebody's comment and I said that Tosh jumped on me in bed that morning, and then I told my mom the story when she came over to my house and she was like, "Oh, I know. I saw it online." I was like, that feels weird. I don't like that. Because she pretty much sees everything, but it was maybe two hours before I saw her to tell her in person. But that felt a little weird. So I agree, people will tell us that they've seen our videos or something which is cool, but then it also feels, I don't know, it feels a little strange when somebody already knows everything that you would have told them. Like, okay.
Beth Demme (24:48):
So aside from those awkward moments, I would say definitely being able to connect in person is meaningful, and is something that I probably underestimated until I couldn't do it as much as I wanted to.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:05):
Yeah, and I have been able to see my Niblings more, which is amazing because I really haven't spent a lot of time with them over the pandemic, and that just feels like, there's nothing compared to seeing my Niblings on FaceTime. Which also, they're not great at FaceTime. They are all over the place, they run around with the camera, it's like, okay. But then being able to be with them in person just kind of interacting is amazing. So I'm glad we've been able to get back to some of that.
Beth Demme (25:36):
Yeah. And I would guess that for your Niblings to be able to have that time with you will make the bond... You guys already have a strong bond, but it's being able to actually see you in person probably cements that in a way that's different than if they were only seeing you on a screen or from far away.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:53):
I mean, I think I'm pretty great in person.
Beth Demme (25:55):
I mean, I'd probably say you're a 90.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:58):
What would get me to 100, Beth?
Beth Demme (26:00):
I don't know, why don't you work on that?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:06):
Could you give me any concrete examples of how I could work on that, Beth?
Beth Demme (26:10):
I would say this number is more about me than about you, so, I'll work on it.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:15):
Okay, let me know when I made 100. If we're talking fun levels, that's a whole different percentage. Hold on, let me think of your fun level.
Beth Demme (26:22):
These numbers are so meaningless.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:23):
I think you are very fun, so I would give you a 97.
Beth Demme (26:25):
Oh, well thank you, thank you.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:27):
Because we've actually gone on a trip together and you were fun, so.
Beth Demme (26:31):
We had fun at Disney. That was fun.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:32):
So, I think you're fun.
Beth Demme (26:33):
Yeah. I think you're fun too.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:36):
But I think that's a good idea, for people to rate how fun their friends are... and then tell them. I think that's what the whole episode is about, right? Is rate your friends on different trust levels and how fun they are. What percentage they are meaningful in your life. I think that's good.
Beth Demme (26:53):
I mean that's one way to not have to deal with very many friends. Because I think they would...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:59):
If you really wanting to pair down that friend list, those pods that you have, maybe just into one pod of maybe one person to zero people. No, I'm seeing that. I'm seeing that now.
Beth Demme (27:09):
My best friends are me, myself and I.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:12):
Beth Demme (27:12):
Yeah. I have heard... I haven't heard this in a long time, but a few years ago it seemed like people were talking about pairing down their friends and trying to get down to a core group.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:25):
Daniel does that.
Beth Demme (27:26):
He edits his friends? I don't get that.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:30):
Yes. So, Daniel does that, my bro. I feel like we've talked about this before on an episode, I think we did.
Beth Demme (27:37):
Listen, we have over 100 episodes, we've probably talked about all of this.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:40):
Yeah. And if you find where we talked about it, let us know, and you get a prize. We'll give you a prize. That would be pretty impressive.
Beth Demme (27:49):
Yeah, that would be.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:49):
We'll find a prize. It'll be great. Anyways, he does that. He specifically will go through his list of friends and he will only text the ones that he finds are valuable in his life during that time. I've been told that I always make the list, I don't know how accurate that is, I haven't actually talked to him in a while. When I text him, he doesn't text me back, so we are going to get... Yeah, he will text me back eventually. He's just changed jobs recently so her gets very laser-focus, that's just very much like him. I know we're still good, but there are seasons of time where we don't communicate as much as normal. So how are you intentional about spending time with your different pods of people? Or an individual?
Beth Demme (28:34):
I feel like my friends and I are moving to, like, we want to have a set time where we know we're going to get together. Well, I mean, book club is always the same, I don't know, the second Monday or whatever it is of every month. But I'm hearing from other friends that that's how they want to do it, too. Like let's set our... one friend and I have been talking about having porch time, let's set our porch time to be the third Sunday of every month, or whatever it ends up being. And I think it's a reflection of, not only are people busy, but also that without intentionality, it just doesn't happen. It just kind of gets lost, the days go by, and then it's like, "Oh my goodness, it's the end of the month and I haven't spent any time with so-and-so."
Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:20):
So you have to want to make it intentional.
Beth Demme (29:22):
Beth Demme (29:29):
We have a ton of fun making this podcast and we love knowing that you have fun listening. Some of you have asked how you can support us in this work. Well, actually, there is something you can do. We're now on BuyMeACoffee.com. You can go there and become a monthly supporter, or just buy us a one-time cup of coffee, or tea for Steph.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (29:48):
Yep. To show our thanks for your support we put PDFs of our questions for reflection as well as pictures, outtakes, polls, and more. Your support helps cover production costs like professional transcripts we have made for every episode. And by the way, those are always available on our website with a link in each of the descriptions of the episodes.
Beth Demme (30:06):
One of the great things about Buy Me a Coffee is that you actually get an email when we post new content. You can go straight there and you don't have to deal with ads or being bombarded with other content. You see exactly the content you're looking for without a bunch of distractions.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (30:20):
We post once or twice for each episode and we're excited to get your feedback as members of our Buy Me a Coffee page. There's a support link in the description where you can find out more, and to sign up.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (30:33):
And if you want to connect with us online, I know it's not as good as in person, but in the description of the podcast episode there's a link to each of our websites and a link to our social media, email, all of those fun things. And I also want to let you know that we have a phone number that is also in the description that you are welcome to text or call anytime. We have previously asked questions that you could answer, and we're not going to ask a question today but we do have a voicemail from, actually...
Beth Demme (31:05):
One of my friends!
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:06):
One of Beth's pod members. One of her friends, who is a lawyer, right?
Beth Demme (31:11):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:12):
Beth Demme (31:13):
That's how she and I first met, we were in Tallahassee Women Lawyers together.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:16):
So she would be in your lawyer pod.
Beth Demme (31:18):
She's in my lawyer pod.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:18):
Nice. So we are going to listen to that voicemail.
Hi Beth and Steph, it's Suzanne in Tallahassee. I just finished listening to When A Lawyer Gets Jury Duty and I am still laughing. I wanted to share my story of getting called for jury duty. I completely sympathize with Steph on the issue of not having a jury of your peers.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:44):
Beth Demme (31:44):
She says you're right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (31:44):
I was a member of a six-person jury on a criminal case and it was an attempted murder trial and the youth certainly did not have a jury of their peers in the sense that Stephanie is concerned. We had myself, who was a lawyer private practice at the time, mid-level state agency manager, a bank president, an opera performance consultant, and a retired professor. I honestly can't remember what the other one was but, wow. They were not being judged by their peers in so many senses, and I feel your pain, Steph.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (32:36):
I was surprised that I was chosen, but so happy. I'd actually been called several times over the years and never been able to serve, and I was so happy to do my civic duty as you all were referring to it. I was also appalled at how the general public were making assumptions and ready to convict the defendant based on things that were not in evidence. And we did it in my heart of hearts.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (33:11):
No, not good enough.
We took a straw pull at the beginning, and several people wanted to convict and then a couple were on the fence, and me and one other person were like, "No, not guilty." So it took me a while to convince them, but based on the evidence, the state had not proven their case because they had a burden, and it was a big one, and they didn't carry it. So, glad I got to serve, maybe I'll get to do it again in the future. On the other end, civic duty, yes. We need to do our civic duty. That does include voting, you all talked about that. Volunteer work, and jury service. I'm a huge fan. Love you guys. Bye.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (33:52):
Beth Demme (33:53):
Thank you so much for calling in, Suzanne. And thank you for serving on that jury and making sure the burden of proof mattered, oh my goodness.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (34:02):
Yes. And I love many things she said, she said I was right so that was great. But that's exactly what I talked about in that episode was, it's not a jury of your peers. And she gave a perfect example that it was not. It was just a jury of people that live in your same town.
Beth Demme (34:16):
Right. But what would a jury of peers mean for that person? Would it mean only people who have ever been accused of attempted murder?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (34:23):
No, I would think it'd be people closer to the person's age, number one. People that... did this person have a job? So maybe unemployed people, people that maybe live in the same area this person lived in, I don't know. But I'm assuming none of them are... She said youth, so I'm assuming none of them were even close to this person's age.
Beth Demme (34:47):
Yeah, it did sound like all the jurors were older than the accused.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (34:50):
And in a whole different place of life. So...
Beth Demme (34:53):
But it worked out for the accused because she made them stick to the burden of proof.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (34:56):
Yeah. I wonder if she was the point person... what is it called, the point person?
Beth Demme (34:59):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (34:59):
The foreperson. I wonder if she was. You weren't for yours.
Beth Demme (35:02):
I was not.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (35:03):
Well that was great, thank you so much for calling in, and again, if you want to call in, that number is...
Beth Demme (35:09):
850 270 3308.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (35:14):
And you can call or text. So, Beth, do you have any weird news for me today?
Beth Demme (35:17):
I do, actually. As I was on my way here, I was listening to a news podcast because I listen to podcasts all the time. But they mentioned kind of in passing that there is a service in China that is exploding in popularity, and it's where you can rent a friend.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (35:42):
Oh, I think I've heard of that.
Beth Demme (35:43):
Stephanie Kostopoulos (35:44):
You can rent an actual person.
Beth Demme (35:47):
Right. So you rent a person for 30 minutes, and they meet you for coffee and for a small fee apparently, will be your friend.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (35:59):
I think I've seen an actual something on that, I can't remember what it was. I feel like I actually saw a physical video about this, and this guy was like, "Yeah, people rent me." Which it seems like, on the surface, it seems like... well, I don't know.
Beth Demme (36:16):
I don't know, right?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:17):
There's a lot of things, I'm like... Any time you rent a person, that's very problematic.
Beth Demme (36:21):
That's problematic. Right. But you're really renting their time, I guess, would be the way to look at it.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:28):
But I mean, I think there's services where you can rent a bridesmaid. I feel like I just saw that the other day. And that even...
Beth Demme (36:37):
What is that? Like, if your friends aren't cute enough to be bridesmaids or something?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:41):
I don't know. Or if you don't have friends. And so, I feel like I remember seeing that somewhere a while back.
Beth Demme (36:46):
Who wants that in their wedding pictures? You're going to look back 25 years later and be like, "Oh yeah, I don't really know them."
Stephanie Kostopoulos (36:51):
There's so many people that want that image wedding, and if you don't have... maybe the bride's side has a ton of friends and fills out her party, but then the male doesn't, or vice versa, I don't know. I would never do it, I'm just saying. But my point was, that makes more sense to me than just a friend. What's the purpose? I guess I would want, what's the purpose. And I could see even renting a bridesmaid because that's a job. Or not a bridesmaid, a maid of honor. Because it's a job, you're having them actually do many, many things. Even though that still would be weird because it should be a friend.
Beth Demme (37:32):
But you could hire a wedding consultant. But I don't know about...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (37:36):
I mean, I'm not saying it's not weird, I still... yeah. I mean that's not my jam.
Beth Demme (37:42):
I think that it just makes me very uncomfortable and the reason that it makes me uncomfortable is that so much in our lives is already transactional, that friendship shouldn't be transactional. It's not about...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (37:58):
It's not a friendship at that point though. If you're paying someone, I don't think it's a friendship.
Beth Demme (38:02):
Right, well we've talked about how important it is to have a counselor, right? And one of the things I love about my time with my counselor is that it is all about me. I don't have to ask about her family, or her day, or how work has been, right? Because we're not friends. This is transactional and it's for my benefit. And I kind of wonder if that's where these rent-a-friends are going, I don't know.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:30):
Yeah. I don't know. I mean I'm not totally against it, I don't know enough about it to... And it's not here. It's in China.
Beth Demme (38:36):
This particular one was in reference to China but when I just kind of Googled it so I could put something in our show notes, I guess it's everywhere.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (38:43):
Yeah. I mean you can rent people to build furniture, to move things. I guess I would want a little bit more information on... I'm not against the concept of... You know, there's dating apps where you can just make friends. It's just a friendship. And so I don't think that's that weird.
Beth Demme (39:04):
Well that's like to facilitate how to meet someone, that makes sense to me.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (39:06):
Yeah, so I don't think that's weird. But paying someone, I don't understand why you would pay for the friendship when you could just try to meet... There's apps where you can meet people. So I guess I would have to understand it more before I could really pass judgment on it. Which I don't really want to anyways, because as long as you're not harming people... But on the surface it feels, there's many problematic areas but I don't know. I mean anytime you can connect with somebody in a genuine way I think is great, but I don't know if that's what you could get with a rent-a-friend. Well, I think it's great for narcissists because they need somebody that is just going to continue to boast them up and make them feel good, and be their friend because they're being paid to be their friend. I think that is probably the best service a narcissist could ever have.
Beth Demme (39:59):
And we should totally be feeding into that.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (40:02):
I mean, I think that's what our whole society is based around, taking care of the narcissists. But that sounds like a whole 'nother episode.
Beth Demme (40:10):
So much sarcasm in this episode today, too.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (40:12):
At the end of each episode, we end with questions for reflection. These are questions based on today's show that Beth will read and leave a little pause between, or you can find a PDF on our Buy Me a Coffee page.
Beth Demme (40:24):
Number one: Do you have a group of friends? How did you find them?
Beth Demme (40:30):
Number two: Do you have a fun name for your friend group? If you don't, take a moment now to brainstorm a few ideas.
Beth Demme (40:38):
Number three: What qualities do you look for in a friend, or a squad, or a pod member?
Beth Demme (40:45):
And number four: How will you make time for your friend group in the next six months?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (40:55):
This has been the Discovering Our Scars Podcast. Thank you for joining us.